So will a BGS 9 likely crossover to a PSA 9?

akuracy503 · January 12, 2014 12:35PM

Talking 90's - 2000's modern high profile rookie card.
No crack and submit, just crossover in the BGS holder.

How different are the grading standards, what's the likelihood?

BunchOBull · January 12, 2014 12:40PM

If the BGS 9 has any subgrades below 9, won't cross. If all the subgrades are equal or above the desired crossover grade, it will typically make the cut.

Boopotts · January 12, 2014 12:51PM

<< If the BGS 9 has any subgrades below 9, won't cross. If all the subgrades are equal or above the desired crossover grade, it will typically make the cut. >>

My experience runs completely contrary to this. In fact, I don't even look at the subgrades when I'm trying to decide if a card I see online will cross.

From what I've seen, about 7 out of 10 BGS 9's (regardless of subgrades) would cross to a PSA 9 on the first try; and, conversely, about 7 out of 10 PSA 9's would cross to a BGS 9 on the first try. The two grading standards are nearly identical- the only difference is that BGS uses a dumb marketing ploy ('subgrades', which are laughably inconsistent) and PSA does not.

ThoseBackPages · January 12, 2014 1:03PM

Certainly not 93 SP Jeter

Skyhawks1b · January 12, 2014 2:11PM

<< 

<< If the BGS 9 has any subgrades below 9, won't cross. If all the subgrades are equal or above the desired crossover grade, it will typically make the cut. >>

My experience runs completely contrary to this. In fact, I don't even look at the subgrades when I'm trying to decide if a card I see online will cross.

From what I've seen, about 7 out of 10 BGS 9's (regardless of subgrades) would cross to a PSA 9 on the first try; and, conversely, about 7 out of 10 PSA 9's would cross to a BGS 9 on the first try. The two grading standards are nearly identical- the only difference is that BGS uses a dumb marketing ploy ('subgrades', which are laughably inconsistent) and PSA does not. >>

What is your opinion regarding SGC? For instance, I have an SGC 88 51' Bowman I am attempting to crossover. I'd really like an 8, but selected a 7 as my minimum.

MrNearMint · January 13, 2014 4:56AM

I would say probably.

If you look at both companies grading standards, BGS is more strict with centering than PSA. Also, BGS seems to have a more informative/more in-depth definition of their 9 grade as PSA doesn't mention surface gloss or corners.

A while back, I contacted BGS and asked them what's the chances of having a PSA 10 crossed over to a BGS 9.5 and the answer I got was, "it depends on the condition of the card when we receive it."

I imagine PSA (or any reputable grading company) uses this same philosophy.

digicat · January 13, 2014 5:12AM

<< The two grading standards are nearly identical- the only difference is that BGS uses a dumb marketing ploy ('subgrades', which are laughably inconsistent) and PSA does not. >>

Why do you think subgrades are a "dumb marketing ploy"?

hookem · January 13, 2014 9:15AM

<< Certainly not 93 SP Jeter >>

+1

That said I have had great success on crossing other BGS 9's.

dtkk49a · January 13, 2014 12:43PM

I crossed a 2000 Upper Deck Tom Brady rookie from a BGS 9 to a PSA 9 recently.

I would never even think of trying to cross a 93 Jeter SP - it just won't happen nowadays.

vladguerrero · January 14, 2014 1:00AM

<< 

<< The two grading standards are nearly identical- the only difference is that BGS uses a dumb marketing ploy ('subgrades', which are laughably inconsistent) and PSA does not. >>

Why do you think subgrades are a "dumb marketing ploy"? >>

Some people prefer not to have grade justification so they can come here, guess, and complain about their perceived undergraded PSA cards?

KbKards · January 14, 2014 1:57AM

Talking 90's - 2000's modern high profile rookie card.
No crack and submit, just crossover in the BGS holder.

How different are the grading standards, what's the likelihood?

A lot will have to do with value. If the card is significantly more expensive in a PSA 9 holder then why is it in a BGS 9 holder. Why wouldn't the seller attempt the crossover? Most of the cards you'll see and have access to will have already been "recycled", purchased, failed crossover, and then resold to the next person to repeat the process.

Boopotts · January 14, 2014 2:56AM

<< 

<< The two grading standards are nearly identical- the only difference is that BGS uses a dumb marketing ploy ('subgrades', which are laughably inconsistent) and PSA does not. >>

Why do you think subgrades are a "dumb marketing ploy"? >>

Because they aren't applied with any consistency. You'll see cards with 55/45 centering get a 9.5 subgrade, or a card with a chipped edge get a '10 for edges; conversely, you'll see cards with four razor sharp corners get an 8.5 for corners, etc. etc.

digicat · January 14, 2014 3:30AM

<< 

<< 

<< The two grading standards are nearly identical- the only difference is that BGS uses a dumb marketing ploy ('subgrades', which are laughably inconsistent) and PSA does not. >>

Why do you think subgrades are a "dumb marketing ploy"? >>

Because they aren't applied with any consistency. You'll see cards with 55/45 centering get a 9.5 subgrade, or a card with a chipped edge get a '10 for edges; conversely, you'll see cards with four razor sharp corners get an 8.5 for corners, etc. etc. >>

If they were consistent with the subgrades, would they still be a dumb marketing ploy?

vladguerrero · January 14, 2014 8:03AM

<< 

<< 

<< The two grading standards are nearly identical- the only difference is that BGS uses a dumb marketing ploy ('subgrades', which are laughably inconsistent) and PSA does not. >>

Why do you think subgrades are a "dumb marketing ploy"? >>

Because they aren't applied with any consistency. You'll see cards with 55/45 centering get a 9.5 subgrade, or a card with a chipped edge get a '10 for edges; conversely, you'll see cards with four razor sharp corners get an 8.5 for corners, etc. etc. >>

That doesnt happen consistantly. Beckett has stricter centering requirements for the reverse though so make sure you review both sides of the card.

slum22 · January 14, 2014 8:37AM

I think the subgrades are a very good idea. The consistency with which any grading company (PSA, BGS or any other) applies their standards can always be called into question. In the end TPG is still just someone's opinion. And opinions are bound to differ especially if you are looking at a card you have a vested interest in. I have submitted to both BGS and PSA in small samples and I have generally been satisfied with their strictness and accuracy in both cases. Of course I wish my 8's were 9's and 9's were 9.5's or 10's but I don't think either company was completely off in grading any of the cards I have submitted.

mikeschmidt · January 14, 2014 8:40AM

It depends -

I recently cracked a BGS 9, and it received a PSA 9 on submission. (I was confident if I submitted on crossover, it would not pass).

On a similarly-timed submission, I submitted a BGS 8.5, with a min. grade of PSA 8, and it did not cross.

Really depends, and there's no hard and fast rule to share

Boopotts · January 14, 2014 10:11AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< The two grading standards are nearly identical- the only difference is that BGS uses a dumb marketing ploy ('subgrades', which are laughably inconsistent) and PSA does not. >>

Why do you think subgrades are a "dumb marketing ploy"? >>

Because they aren't applied with any consistency. You'll see cards with 55/45 centering get a 9.5 subgrade, or a card with a chipped edge get a '10 for edges; conversely, you'll see cards with four razor sharp corners get an 8.5 for corners, etc. etc. >>

That doesnt happen consistantly. Beckett has stricter centering requirements for the reverse though so make sure you review both sides of the card. >>

Are you arguing that the subgrades ARE applied consistently? If so, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Boopotts · January 14, 2014 10:17AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< The two grading standards are nearly identical- the only difference is that BGS uses a dumb marketing ploy ('subgrades', which are laughably inconsistent) and PSA does not. >>

Why do you think subgrades are a "dumb marketing ploy"? >>

Because they aren't applied with any consistency. You'll see cards with 55/45 centering get a 9.5 subgrade, or a card with a chipped edge get a '10 for edges; conversely, you'll see cards with four razor sharp corners get an 8.5 for corners, etc. etc. >>

If they were consistent with the subgrades, would they still be a dumb marketing ploy? >>

Is the value conferred to the consumer by the 'ploy' real or illusory? That's the question. If it's illusory than it's dumb; if it's real than it's not. If the subgrades were applied consistently, and people found that additional information helpful, then there wouldn't be anything dumb about it. As it stands, however, the 'extra information' the subgrades provide you is, in my opinion, purely illusory. Thus, I consider it a dumb marketing ploy, not unlike the 'sales' run by just_collect, where a card is priced at 1000% of it's market value and then 'marked down' 90%.

dtkk49a · January 14, 2014 10:25AM

Most of the cards you'll see and have access to will have already been "recycled", purchased, failed crossover, and then resold to the next person to repeat the process.

Exactly. A lot of the ungraded high profile cards on eBay have been through this process. Sometimes, you do luck out and get the 9 or 10 that the previous submitter didn't get. Sometimes you get the 8 too.

MrNearMint · January 14, 2014 1:41PM

<< 

<< 

<< The two grading standards are nearly identical- the only difference is that BGS uses a dumb marketing ploy ('subgrades', which are laughably inconsistent) and PSA does not. >>

Why do you think subgrades are a "dumb marketing ploy"? >>

Because they aren't applied with any consistency. You'll see cards with 55/45 centering get a 9.5 subgrade, or a card with a chipped edge get a '10 for edges; conversely, you'll see cards with four razor sharp corners get an 8.5 for corners, etc. etc. >>

There are inconsistencies among ALL grading companies. Card grading is such a subjective business, nobody is perfect. And even worse, when humans are involved, there is bound to be errors.

MrNearMint · January 14, 2014 1:52PM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< The two grading standards are nearly identical- the only difference is that BGS uses a dumb marketing ploy ('subgrades', which are laughably inconsistent) and PSA does not. >>

Why do you think subgrades are a "dumb marketing ploy"? >>

Because they aren't applied with any consistency. You'll see cards with 55/45 centering get a 9.5 subgrade, or a card with a chipped edge get a '10 for edges; conversely, you'll see cards with four razor sharp corners get an 8.5 for corners, etc. etc. >>

That doesnt happen consistantly. Beckett has stricter centering requirements for the reverse though so make sure you review both sides of the card. >>

BGS has stricter centering guidelines on front and back in almost every category. From a grade of 7 on up to 10 (I didn't look at centering guidelines under a 7) BGS has stricter guidelines.

vladguerrero · January 14, 2014 2:15PM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< The two grading standards are nearly identical- the only difference is that BGS uses a dumb marketing ploy ('subgrades', which are laughably inconsistent) and PSA does not. >>

Why do you think subgrades are a "dumb marketing ploy"? >>

Because they aren't applied with any consistency. You'll see cards with 55/45 centering get a 9.5 subgrade, or a card with a chipped edge get a '10 for edges; conversely, you'll see cards with four razor sharp corners get an 8.5 for corners, etc. etc. >>

That doesnt happen consistantly. Beckett has stricter centering requirements for the reverse though so make sure you review both sides of the card. >>

Are you arguing that the subgrades ARE applied consistently? If so, we'll just have to agree to disagree. >>

In general, sure. I think a lot of it has to do with knowing the specific issue (set) and how it's graded. I've done two BGS Set Registries and when you do sets of the same types of cards you see that consistency better. One of them (80's Fleer basketball) BGS is tougher on surface (fish eyes, snow, etc) than PSA. With the other BGS is much tougher and essentially has a different opinion on how refractor lines should affect the grade. I've graded plenty of BGS 8.5 Refractors into PSA 10's. It's not that BGS messed up with a surface grade of 8 on the BGS 8.5 card, just graded differently. Or go the other way, BGS is clearly more lenient on vintage... or Dpecks condition sensitive wrestling cards for example. The grader doesn't apply subgrades to the final grade, he grades the subgrade categories which determine the final grade. Having to assign 4 grades to a card gives you a better understanding of why the card graded out the way it did, might not change the overall grade but I'll take that.

So will a BGS 9 likely crossover to a PSA 9?

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