Article on grading turaround times
jon6879
Posts: 29
Pretty interesting article on grading turnaround times
http://voices.yahoo.com/frustrated-card-collectors-ready-take-stand-12468562.html?cat=24
http://voices.yahoo.com/frustrated-card-collectors-ready-take-stand-12468562.html?cat=24
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Comments
I'm def all for more females.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I always deliver my cards in person (that way they (PSA are responsible for loss), I have gotten to know a few of the customer service people personally and they recognize me I think it helps
Order # Submission # Date Received Date Shipped Average Days Poppage Status Items Service Department
20748343 5386636 10/14/2013 10/25/2013 11 Shipped 27 Monthly Special 6 PSA
20734790 5325148 8/28/2013 9/12/2013 15 Shipped 25 Monthly Special 5 PSA
20705185 5303916 5/15/2013 5/23/2013 8 Shipped 28 Monthly Special 6 PSA
20661178 5266110 12/13/2012 12/18/2012 5 Shipped 80 Monthly Special 4 PSA
20642618 5231775 10/6/2012 10/9/2012 3 Shipped 89 Monthly Special 6 PSA
20572962 5217344 1/26/2012 2/10/2012 15 Shipped 50 Monthly Special 5 PSA
20504045 5075276 5/18/2011 5/26/2011 8 Shipped 62 Monthly Special 2 PSA
20470537 5039596 1/20/2011 1/27/2011 7 Shipped 6 CC Free PSA
20470358 5039598 1/19/2011 1/28/2011 9 Shipped 1 Monthly Special 6 PSA
Barry
<< <i>I'm a woman of many paths, thoughts, desires, goals, and dreams. I am a believer that everything happens for a reason. I was raised on the premise to never rely on anyone but myself, to be strong, independent, and most importantly resourceful. I am creative, witty, and extremely self reliant. I have the ability to act quickly and think on my toes to solve even the simplest of dilemmas. I am complex, complicated, and moody. I've experienced loss, pain, and inner anguish that is indescribable and undesirable by most, but I believe all of these qualities; good and bad, have created the woman I am today. Strong, Intelligent, Determined, Accomplished, and HUMAN. My ability to be deeply empathetic will be the death of me. The pain I carry for others, the sorrow I feel for those who are suffering, the yearn I have to want to fix everything for anyone, makes me who I am. I am me. Complex, confused, growing, and full of organized chaos. >>
It's easier to pass the blame rather than to accept personal responsibility.
for slow service.. Just being honest....
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
<< <i>If I had rare cards I would pay for faster service... Since I only have cheap worthless cards I pay
for slow service.. Just being honest.... >>
Yeah, that doesn't really matter. I had a Super Express order (2 business days) that took nearly 3 weeks and currently am waiting on an Express order (5 business days) that was received at PSA on November 30, logged in on December 14 and is currently still pending. $35 a card for this level of "service". Paying more money just means more money out of your pocket with no improvement in the quality of service.
complaining it took 60 it just gets old..
Have you called PSA? What is the reason? Maybe its they think its altered and are letting it sit?
What stand is she talking about?
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
<< <i>
<< <i>If I had rare cards I would pay for faster service... Since I only have cheap worthless cards I pay
for slow service.. Just being honest.... >>
Yeah, that doesn't really matter. I had a Super Express order (2 business days) that took nearly 3 weeks and currently am waiting on an Express order (5 business days) that was received at PSA on November 30, logged in on December 14 and is currently still pending. $35 a card for this level of "service". Paying more money just means more money out of your pocket with no improvement in the quality of service. >>
I too am waiting on a (5 day) Express that was logged on 12/16. IMO, total waste of money. Every time I call I get the same BS "Service Time is Approximate" .
I have experiences similar to yours and am addressing some concerns now with them.
Somebody should give JeffV a headsup to let him know that may not be a rubber ducky in the bubble bath.
This guy sounds like an investment guru.
Some strong content coming from these free lance Yahoo writers.
<< <i>I think it's awesome that it's a female, lynn the author, running the card store she mentions which is waiting for her PSA inventory. >>
Kinda interesting her eBay store link only has pet products, nothing sports related.
Could be mistaken but I have a feeling she's a freelance blogger just looking for clicks.
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm a woman of many paths, thoughts, desires, goals, and dreams. I am a believer that everything happens for a reason. I was raised on the premise to never rely on anyone but myself, to be strong, independent, and most importantly resourceful. I am creative, witty, and extremely self reliant. I have the ability to act quickly and think on my toes to solve even the simplest of dilemmas. I am complex, complicated, and moody. I've experienced loss, pain, and inner anguish that is indescribable and undesirable by most, but I believe all of these qualities; good and bad, have created the woman I am today. Strong, Intelligent, Determined, Accomplished, and HUMAN. My ability to be deeply empathetic will be the death of me. The pain I carry for others, the sorrow I feel for those who are suffering, the yearn I have to want to fix everything for anyone, makes me who I am. I am me. Complex, confused, growing, and full of organized chaos. >>
>>
I feel like I just re-read a paragraph from Eat, Pray, Love. Next up, we're going to hear about Felipe.
They did this for coins last year and actually increased submissions. Coins get $20+ per submission. Cards are only $8+. They do about the same amount of cards and coins but due to the increased average submission price, coins make up 66% of revenue.
<< <i>As an investor in the parent company, CLCT, I have been advocating a huge price increase for Sports Cards. Something like 50%. PSA has over 80% market share and are considered the industry standard. Increase prices which will increase margins. They will lose market share but will be more profitable. Hire a few more graders and back office people with the extra money. In time, the improved service will regain market share.
They did this for coins last year and actually increased submissions. Coins get $20+ per submission. Cards are only $8+. They do about the same amount of cards and coins but due to the increased average submission price, coins make up 66% of revenue. >>
I am not sure cards can support that model. I could be mistaken but I suspect a lot of submissions revolve around customers taking shots on 10s and at 5 or 6 a pop, it is worth the gamble at times. Moving submission prices to the $20 range will kill that market and, in fact, would dramatically in my opinion drop off total submissions as there are simply not a flood of cards out there that can justify such a submission cost.
As well, PSA built its market share in good part upon the set registry. The registry started the "craze" of grading commons. Submission prices at 20 dollars would kill the registry and, in my opinion, create a lot of bad will that would, in turn, cause damage to not necessarily the PSA brand directly but customer satisfaction. That could be hard to recover from.
In my opinion PSA has a good business model in place. Raising prices to the 20 dollar level to me would not seem prudent.
Just my opinion.
<< <i>just to be clear, I didn't say to raise to $20. I said coins were at $20+ and cards at $8+ and advocated a card raise of up to 50% =====> about $12, not $20 >>
Even a hike to that level would price me out. I am so small a fish in the sea it might not even matter, but just sayin'.
Topps/OPC Hockey 1966-Present base sets
<< <i>You start turning those orders around in a couple of weeks and it will motivate people to send in a lot more cards >>
I've slowed my submissions to a crawl over the past year because of the unpredictable turnaround times. I know of at least three sets I sold raw that I would have normally subbed a large portion of the cards. I can't afford to have inventory tied up for 3 months, and then if you get some back you want to crack and re-sub again, double that. My biggest frustration last year was a large sub they divided into two smaller ones. All the cards were from the same collection, all about the same high grade condition. They popped the first half of the sub in less than a week, the second went over 45 days. The grades in one sub were mostly 9's, the second mostly 8's. Same cards, same sets, same collection.
~WalterSobchak
Being that I've never submitted anything for grading, I suppose I should send in my first submission before the price goes up!
<< <i>the average submission cost is $8 now and turnaround times are awful. On top of that, they have $5 and $6 monthly specials. Why do that when your are already backlogged? Raise the price to $12 and then have monthly $10 specials or $8 specials. The net affect is fewer submissions but at a higher average price. Business 101. >>
I don't think it is as simple as this. A ton of cards get sent in that won't as the break even cost is to high. There is a point where raising prices would be very damaging to the business and finding that magic number would be tricky.
<< <i>If I had rare cards I would pay for faster service... Since I only have cheap worthless cards I pay
for slow service.. Just being honest.... >>
This does not work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My last submissions were three different service levels and they got done in REVERSE order according to what I paid for.
Not trying to be rude; but I'm thinking you know nothing about cards as I know next to nothing about coins...therefore I do not comment about coins. The very reason that PSA has such a market share is because of the set registry. A large majority of the submissions PSA receives are commons from those very sets---such as 1970-present. I believe that if prices for commons went up even $2 it would be a disasterous move for PSA. Some set registries would have never existed if the average price was $12. Also, just because the average sub price is like $8....that number is a statistic that proves nothing. Most commons are sent in using under $8 services, specials, bulk deals. If you are an investor in the company, you better hope they don't take your advice.
Mickey71
#1 Raise prices
#2 Raise margins on Monthly Specials
#3 Improve service
<< <i>Taking my advice in coins turned out to be the best thing they ever did. In the coin market, they are like the Mercedes of coins. Who wants to be the Hyundai of cards? Are they a premier service company or a bulk service company? I would gladly relinquish market share down to 50% from 80% if the average submission rate was $12 as opposed to $8. It makes no sense to have low margin monthly specials when your backlog is already too long. My advice for PSA in 2014 is:
#1 Raise prices
#2 Raise margins on Monthly Specials
#3 Improve service >>
Do you realize that some graded cards sell for $0.99 and many under $10?
PSA has gotten people like me and many others to send in cards that were deemed otherwise worthless. It was brilliant not stupid.
<< <i>Taking my advice in coins turned out to be the best thing they ever did. In the coin market, they are like the Mercedes of coins. Who wants to be the Hyundai of cards? Are they a premier service company or a bulk service company? I would gladly relinquish market share down to 50% from 80% if the average submission rate was $12 as opposed to $8. It makes no sense to have low margin monthly specials when your backlog is already too long. My advice for PSA in 2014 is:
#1 Raise prices
#2 Raise margins on Monthly Specials
#3 Improve service >>
They raised prices based entirely on your advice?
No. Sorry if I implied it.
yeah you kind of did
<< <i>Taking my advice in coins turned out to be the best thing they ever did.
yeah you kind of did >>
I don't think he meant to, I took it more to mean "following the blueprint I'm advocating."
From there the service times should be held to on the non-specials. It should be easy for PSA to figure their capacity to grade cards, I could go in and map it and figure it out in a day, and probably come up with areas to cut down the lead time as well.
I've had great response from the PSA set registry team, they respond quickly and take care of things. Whatever price that PSA wants to charge is up to them, I can decide if I will submit at that price. It is the black hole for grading turnaround that I find most frustrating. More visibility into that would be helpful. Even if the order status added a "problem" status, people check frequently on their orders and could call and resolve with PSA, rather than calling out of frustration.
<< <i>Back in the day, $7-$8 was about the best you could expect to get for the economy service and there were no specials. Of course turnaround times were still horrendous at that time and you had to sit on hold for 20 minutes to reach a customer service rep.. >>
Excellent point- however, this was largely negated by the fact that PSA 8 commons from the 1960's averaged about $20/per, and there were at least 20-30 athletes with careers that spanned the 1980's and 90s for whom PSA 10's routinely sold for $30+. Obviously these conditions no longer apply, and that makes PSAs shortcomings-- of which I include long delays to log orders, inconsistently applied grading standards, and poor turnaround times-- harder to swallow.
Let's face it-- if Comcast treated customers like PSA, the country would be in full revolt by now. I think Joe Orlando is a straight shooter who honestly tries his best, but this stretch of 6+ years or so without any real competitors has made PSA fat, happy, and not all that pleasant to work with.
<< <i>What is the low end value for a graded coin? >>
The avg coin is worth about $1K. The floor is maybe $50. Bulk submitters can get those graded at $5/each in large quantities. Bulk coins have to have a minimum grade and they are typically Modern coins that come from the Mint in packages of 500.
it's the lack of decent collector club specials for 1956+ cards.
I can't justify a collector club fee that I can use for only 8-9 months a year. Not only inconvenient
but the then to have to wait two months like I did last time is just over the top. They cheat with
your turnaround times too -- don't even log in my order for 7-10 days after they've received it?
WTH kind of service is that? If they're understaffed why not hire some more graders.
SGC is getting my money for the next year, I'll still be using PSA/DNA for autographs.
DaveB in St.Louis
That being said, I agree with her observations about there being no rhyme or reason to their system. I have paid for 5 day reviews that took 2 weeks while a bulk submission of 200 cards at collectors club pricing level is graded in 3 days
TheClockworkAngelCollection
Why bother? SGC is considered the same as raw.
<< <i>SGC is getting my money for the next year, I'll still be using PSA/DNA for autographs.
Why bother? SGC is considered the same as raw. >>
Not on pre-1970
TheClockworkAngelCollection
<< <i>I can't justify a collector club fee that I can use for only 8-9 months a year. >>
<< <i>SGC is getting my money for the next year >>
Great plan. Lose money on nearly every card you submit/sell because you can't justify a Collectors Club membership fee that pays for itself (if you submit cards with a declared value of $250-$499). Brilliant.
<< <i>
<< <i>I can't justify a collector club fee that I can use for only 8-9 months a year. >>
<< <i>SGC is getting my money for the next year >>
Great plan. Lose money on nearly every card you submit/sell because you can't justify a Collectors Club membership fee that pays for itself (if you submit cards with a declared value of $250-$499). Brilliant. >>
I can't imagine 1991 Topps in SGC 98 does very well either.
Cubs Killer I would just take a deep breath and send the cards into PSA.
<< <i>I think Joe Orlando is a straight shooter who honestly tries his best, but this stretch of 6+ years or so without any real competitors has made PSA fat, happy, and not all that pleasant to work with. >>
Boopotts, based on the submission results you've posted on the board, I'd conservatively estimate that on average you're increasing the value of your cards 100 fold by submitting them to PSA.
If that's not pleasant then I don't know what is.
TheClockworkAngelCollection
<< <i>Dbcoin,
Not trying to be rude; but I'm thinking you know nothing about cards as I know next to nothing about coins...therefore I do not comment about coins. The very reason that PSA has such a market share is because of the set registry. A large majority of the submissions PSA receives are commons from those very sets---such as 1970-present. I believe that if prices for commons went up even $2 it would be a disasterous move for PSA. Some set registries would have never existed if the average price was $12. Also, just because the average sub price is like $8....that number is a statistic that proves nothing. Most commons are sent in using under $8 services, specials, bulk deals. If you are an investor in the company, you better hope they don't take your advice.
Mickey71 >>
Mickey nailed it. There is a HUGE difference in grading fees for coins vs grading fees for cards, as the % of cards submitted and graded by PSA and worth less than $10 is EXPONENTIALLY greater than the number of coins submitted and graded by PCGS and worth less than $20. I submit both to PSA and PCGS. Many of the late 70s common cards I submit to PSA for my registry sets, I would never bother submitting if the grading fee were $10 or more, as those cards even in Mint 9 grade (unless they were low pop cards) would not be worth the cost of grading the card in the first place. The brilliant part of the set registry is that collectors will send in 100s of common cards that are worth $10 or less, even if the submission cost is $6 per card, and if you raise the submission fee to $10 or $12 a card, a HUGE number of cards that are submitted today would never be sent in. That may be a good thing as far as turnaround times, and revenue per card, but the volume of submissions would decline significantly to the point of being detrimental to the brand and business under that model, imo, NO ONE in their right mind is going to send in 100s of common cards worth less than $10 even in Mint 9 grade if the cost of grading the card is $2 higher than that. This is why people who collect coins really have no concept of the card grading side of the hobby, just as (similarly) those who collect only cards don't understand the logistics behind the coin grading industry.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Raise the price to $12 and then have monthly $10 specials or $8 specials. The net affect is fewer submissions but at a higher average price. Business 101. >>
As a business professor, I must have missed that tidbit along the way. Business 101? What we actually teach in business is that a business strives to find the pricing point at which they maximize revenue. Your in-depth analysis of "raise prices" doesn't tell us a whole lot. Look at the following simplified example:
$5.00 per card brings in 1,500 cards = 5x1500 = $7,500
$6.50 per card brings in 1,200 cards = 6.50x1200 = $7,800
$8.00 per card brings in 700 cards = 8x70 = $5,600
In this example, raising the price to $8 was too much. The revenue curve started to dip, because not enough people were willing to pay $8. The same is true in the other direction. Lowering the price to $5 might not bring in enough extra business to justify the price drop. Therefore, you find the price in the middle that maximizes revenue (obviously there are more complex factors involved in setting the price, but you get the point).
What people are trying to tell you is that we won't submit near as many cards at $8 as we currently do at $6. Not even close. I have a stack of 100 cards that I will gladly send in on the next $5.75 special, but there's no way I'm spending an extra $2-$3 per card ($200-$300 more) for the same service. Why? Because I'm simply going for some home run 10's. If they are 9's, I will try to sell them at a break-even price, and I can't do that if I have to pay more to get them graded.
If companies went with your theory of "hey, just raise prices for a higher average price", companies would soon find themselves out of business, because customers don't just blindly follow along with your higher prices. They just stop buying from you.