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British Rarity - Grade this 1854 florin

7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,584 ✭✭✭✭✭
in World & Ancient Coins Forum
A very tough date to find in other than basal state, or fine at best generally. I believe Heritage had a VF35 not long ago...
Please help to linkify:


http://images.pcgs.com/CoinFacts/18522632_large.jpg
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Comments

  • RobPRobP Posts: 483 ✭✭
    1854 florin

    Interesting one. Parts of it have almost no wear whilst other bits have almost no detail. The decent crown sits uneasily with the virtually non-existent braid. Similarly, some of the lions are weaker than usual as are some of the crowns. Fine - gVF because a specific grade would be unrepresentative of the coin. I suspect it may be slightly weakly struck.
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,481 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In all fairness, I would rather see this in hand to grade. The toning looks great and the problem I am having is simply whether this is a substandard strike or are there things the photo is just not showing that would heavily influence my decision?

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,584 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, I thought it weakly struck as well - the edges look rather nice, and it appears at least to my eyes that there is lustre in and about the devices. No real hits obvious. I suppose there must be a cracking example out there somewhere. The Heritage specimen not nearly as nice.
    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,740 ✭✭✭✭✭
    linkified

    image

    8 Reales Madness Collection
  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,584 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wow, fine grade only? I think it would have to be GVF in the Brit system or better, maybe a bump for rarity by TPGs into the AUs, not much in the way of wear.
    Nice linkify.
    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • MacCrimmonMacCrimmon Posts: 7,058 ✭✭✭
    For the seeing impaired; I'd be generous by giving this florin an XF40 based on the surface wear/marks.

    I've seen three much nicer, and completely nekkid as yet......anyway, PIZZA PLATTER SIZE!!!! image









    image
  • RobPRobP Posts: 483 ✭✭


    << <i>Wow, fine grade only? I think it would have to be GVF in the Brit system or better, maybe a bump for rarity by TPGs into the AUs, not much in the way of wear.
    Nice linkify. >>



    I did say Fine to gVF. Fine for the flat bits, gVF for the nice bits
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,481 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In view of the new pictures, I am not sure it will get a straight grade-

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • coinpicturescoinpictures Posts: 5,345 ✭✭✭
    By American standards, XF/AU technical grade, netted down to VF30-35 due to all the hits. That smack across Vicky's nose might put it in a Details slab.
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  • MacCrimmonMacCrimmon Posts: 7,058 ✭✭✭


    << <i>In view of the new pictures, I am not sure it will get a straight grade- >>




    I'm guessing it received the benefit of the doubt since it is a scarcer date. PCGS has already graded it AU50 per the cert. #
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,481 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Interesting

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • coinpicturescoinpictures Posts: 5,345 ✭✭✭
    It may say that on the slab, but I wouldn't pay AU money for it.
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  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,584 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've seen this one in person and also the previously mentioned Heritage specimen. This one actually is quite nice with quite a bit of original lustre,especially on the reverse. It has the soft strike as well, but despite this the nicest I have seen and looks better in hand than the pictures. I think one of the dealers in England contributed to the on-line catalogue, Martin Platt (occasionally infamous), had a nicer one.

    Maybe Mac can volunteer images of others. In my experience, above Fine is quite rare. Truly uncirculated specimens are near to the top of the heap for British 19th C. silver and IMO rivalled only by the 1839 currency 2/6, maybe the 1863 2/- (although I don't think quite there), and the 1893 Jub 6d. The 1850 +/- overdate shilling in like state would be in there as well.
    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,584 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Update: none. I have been trying to find a better specimen, and at least a picture as keeping an open eye has yielded nought.

    The Martin Platt specimen is marginally better but "lifeless" (cleaned?) and that sold in the Waterbird Collection by Spink similar but cleaned as well.
    This remains a very rare coin above F.

    Coins such as this really make rather silly the condition rarity gold proofs of later Victorian years (1887 and 1893).

    I examined the PCGS photos of the specimen in the OP and it is quite puzzling as Rob P intimated with some details showing through nicely and others softer. The rim in closeup is very interesting with a bit of wire rim even showing in areas. The lions on the shield suffer from soft strike; the queen's crown rather nicely struck with braid softly struck. Despite some mild wear, some luster remains and does not particularly look monkeyed with or cleaned the way the Martin Platt and to a greater extent the Waterbird coin.

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • AuldFartteAuldFartte Posts: 4,597 ✭✭✭✭

    I'm with @7Jaguars - GVF in the Brit system. It's a beautiful coin, IMHO.

    image

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    Tom, formerly in Albuquerque, NM.
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