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Dec 21, 1969 Redskins vs Cowboys at the Cottonbowl...I was there.
MGLICKER
Posts: 7,995 ✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
Let me start out by saying that I was not a football fan at the time. I lived in Detroit and was a diehard Tigers fan.
My mother died tragically that year and my dad took me and my brother to Dallas to spend a couple weeks with my aunt and uncle.
No sooner did we arrive, than my uncle had us board a shuttle bus to the Cotton Bowl, probably a dozen miles away. Somehow, someway my dad and Uncle Eddie picked up 4 tickets outside the stadium (try that now for a playoff game). The seats were separated so us kids got the rafter seats. No problem there.
I will be honest, I don't remember a whole lot about the game. Probably wishing that I was at a baseball game instead.
Interesting note though was it was Roger Staubach's first season. Dallas won 20-10 and went on to lose to the Browns the next week.
All this Skins-Cowboys talk brought back some old memories.
Think I will drink some Geritol and warm milk now and retire for the night.
My mother died tragically that year and my dad took me and my brother to Dallas to spend a couple weeks with my aunt and uncle.
No sooner did we arrive, than my uncle had us board a shuttle bus to the Cotton Bowl, probably a dozen miles away. Somehow, someway my dad and Uncle Eddie picked up 4 tickets outside the stadium (try that now for a playoff game). The seats were separated so us kids got the rafter seats. No problem there.
I will be honest, I don't remember a whole lot about the game. Probably wishing that I was at a baseball game instead.
Interesting note though was it was Roger Staubach's first season. Dallas won 20-10 and went on to lose to the Browns the next week.
All this Skins-Cowboys talk brought back some old memories.
Think I will drink some Geritol and warm milk now and retire for the night.
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Comments
That was back when Dallas had a real legit elite QB!
Roger could probably still out play Tony!!! At least his decision making process would be better!!
Dave
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<< <i>CBS Sports Poll - 2013...........90% of Native Americans say it's not offensive, and they even name their own schools Redskins !!!!!!!! >>
Please send me any phone number Edmund via PM as I am attending a Native Wellness Training in San Diego at the moment. You can view their website on the web. Anyhow, I am in one class of about sixty people right now and you can ask each person on their view of the term used in this survey or just call them the name on the phone to see the reaction you will get. I got the okay and our class of Natives are willing to talk to you tomorrow. I think you would be quite surprised if you truly believe the numbers above. Of course, these are a lot of educated Indians so you may simply dismiss it and chose to "survey" other Indians to come up with the numbers you cited above. I also have a theory on why some Natives may be okay with the term but that is for another post. Hope you can carve out a little time for us. My best. Rob >>
Fitz continues to ignore this very generous offer. Why? >>
I am waiting for the day that the defenders, the actual people, of native mascots decide to name one of their community little league or pop warner football teams after another race instead of Indians and honor them too because they deserve it. The honorers of racist mascots can dress up like them, portray the stereotypes of them to the nth degree and see the outrage that would come their way. Name your team with a non-racist term like Kings after MLK. In the mean time, be sure to dress up like him (black paint necessary if you are white), imitate his speeches to others, includes aspects of religion in here as many deeply spiritual experiences are basically ridiculed by others when in a sports context, and do nothing but honor the team and I am sure you will be making the news in no time. You could literally be on ABC, NBC, CBS all of them.....and I am sure you would be known as the town racist or bigot and people and/or businesses would want to distance themselves from you, to not be associated with you, and depending where you work fired or on ad min leave. Yet it is perfectly okay for mascots to happen to native people, why?
I say that Edmund should dress up as blackface for a Halloween party while his friends dress up as Indians and wonder why it is okay for his friends to not get the grief that he would get. America is pretty slow to acknowledge Native people like they have for other races......it is a mystery to me.
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i>Thanks for sharing your story, mglicker. I hope the experience helped ease your family's pain. >>
Thank you Stown. We did ok after that. Fortunately I had a great father. He would polish the families Morgan Dollars with silver paste, but other than that, he was the best.
Again Im part American Indian and have no problem with Redskin, Chiefs, ect.. being team names as it gives refference to our American history nothing more nothing less.
<< <i>To wrestling card king and his post and pic of quotes from old magazines the reason they were called "Savages" back then was because they used to burn people alive over coals for days, they used to rape woman, kill children, cut off hands and feet, skin people alive, scalp them ect.. ect.. They were in fact savages- like it or not, now Im not saying SOME Cowboys and Soldiers didnt do similar attrocities because they did but unfortunately its apart of the old wild west that is part of our countrys history.
Again Im part American Indian and have no problem with Redskin, Chiefs, ect.. being team names as it gives refference to our American history nothing more nothing less. >>
I believe you when you say you have Indian blood in you, but you may not want to speak from a "Native perspective" if you are disconnected to whatever tribe you may have lineage to. The running joke in Indian country is that when you meet someone and they say they are Cherokee, or say their grandmother was a Cherokee princess to prove they have Indian in them. When an Indian person meets another, you often know because someone will introduce themselves from who their family is and their Tribe. I feel that I can speak for being Yurok as I work for my Tribe, attend ceremonies, try to learn some of the language, and constantly surrounded by other members of our Tribe and my mom's family.
As far as your stance on mascots that is your right, but know that many people do not agree with your position. My question to you is this, if you mentioned all the above atrocities that you proclaim to mostly come from savage Indians (which I respectfully disagree) that give reference to American history of everything you mentioned you think it is good to have these attached to team names? Let's remember the raped women, killed children, the scalping, etc???
A few of the posters engaged with me on the Sports Topic of the Year thread and left that thread to passively aggressively throw the Washington nickname around on other threads. First of all I think everyone needs to acknowledge that war and conflict is often brutal especially of that of the conqueror. When you were describing some of the atrocities, especially of what happened to women and children, I was thinking that happened to many of our Indian communities in history. Scalping in fact was brought to North America and used mostly by the soldiers to get paid for the Indian scalps they claimed. Frankly. I think your statement is wrong on many levels, that they (Indians) were in fact savages while SOME cowboys and soldiers". By whose standard? When I think of the term savages I think many reasons are not for the reasons above but by Indians standard of living, from their religion, and language from the other race who believes to be superior to Indian people. There are many elders that I speak to today and they speak of their boarding school experience and I will cut and paste a little section for you to examine. I have heard many stories of children hiding because they were going to be forcibly removed from their homes to participate in boarding schools and in essence have the Indian taken out of them. Do you think it is right for many Indians today that were forcibly removed from their homes as kids and taken from their parents by our government? While you proclaim that some of this was just history of the "wild west" how can you defend the government in breaking up Indian families so schools can make these Indian children Christian and force them to assimilate?
Here is a Wiki description of the boarding school experience and not the the experience of elders I have spoken to although there are similarities.
American Indian boarding schools were boarding schools established in the United States during the late 19th and early 20th centuries to educate Native American children and youths according to Euro-American standards. They were first established by Christian missionaries of various denominations, who often started schools on reservations and founded boarding schools to provide opportunities for children who did not have schools nearby,[1] especially in the lightly populated areas of the West. The government paid religious societies to provide education to Native American children on reservations. In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) founded additional boarding schools based on the assimilation model of the Carlisle Indian Industrial School.
Children were usually immersed in European-American culture through appearance changes with haircuts, were forbidden to speak their native languages, and traditional names were replaced by new European-American names. The experience of the schools was often harsh, especially for the younger children who were separated from their families. In numerous ways, they were encouraged or forced to abandon their Native American identities and cultures.[2] The number of Native American children in the boarding schools reached a peak in the 1970s, with an estimated enrollment of 60,000 in 1973. Investigations of the later twentieth century have revealed many documented cases of sexual, physical and mental abuse occurring at such schools.
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
If George Washington called Native Americans savages, then I'll stand behind George Washington before I stand behind anyone else, outside
of Mother Teresa, Abe Lincoln, or Martin Luther King.
One question for you Wrestling-card-king.
Why do all the government statistics show that rape will happen twice as much in the Native American community than in any other ethnic community in America ? That includes blacks, white, Hispanic, and every other race.
Where are all the Native American fathers when their daughters are getting raped ? In most civil societies, men go to work, come home and take care of their homes and children, and then gladly watch them tuck into bed at night. What are the dad's doing in your culture ? Why are so many of your daughters getting raped so much ? Where are the men protecting them ? Are you freaking kidding me that rape happens twice as much in Native America than anywhere else ? I know the reports show that both Native Americans and non-Native Americans are both being
held responsible for the huge statistics, but why the war on women ? Where are your men to protect these poor women ?
Sharpton is a guy who likes to make his living off of complaining about the white man and all the white mans ills, while
never speaking out about the atrocities being committed in his own race. Sharpton will never speak about all the African-American gun
violence in Chicago, Detroit, Oakland, or in many other African-American communities. Sharpton will never speak about the father-absenteeism among "his" people. All he does is stir up strife about how people should "fight the power". He'll never speak out about the out of wedlock birth, drug violence, or disrespect of "his" people in public schools.
The reason Sharpton does this is to make money from groups that will get behind him. It's all about making money from people who will
buy into his cause, feel sorry for those he likes to cry about, and then wet his palm with donations from these people.
Again, if you don't like the term Redskins, then don't support NFL football, because Dan Snyder will eventually get some of your money.
If you feel that strongly, then just turn off the TV, because advertisers are paying millions to support Dan Snyder and his evil name of his team.
Why would they do that if they felt oppressed by these "invaders"?
<< <i>There are many elders that I speak to today and they speak of their boarding school experience and I will cut and paste a little section for you to examine. >>
I think it's awesome the elders you speak with post on Wiki (link 1 and link 2).
edited to add: mglicker, sorry that a thread reminiscing about a tough time in your life was derailed like this.
The Indian nations were like any other society, they simply wanted to live a peaceful existence...and like any other society(s), there were parts their society that wanted to conquer, steal, and invade each other.
If you wanted to judge them based on those select, and call them savages, then that would be like judging the whole of the US based on Gary(Indiana), Detroit(parts of), and the West side of Chicago...yikes. I would take my chances going into any of the 500 nations of those days, than I would into Gary, the Westside, or Detroit tonight...unless I was packing.
Other than that, just because they didn't live in big brick and wooden structures...doesn't make them savages.
The Indians got invaded, and fought back...and certainly did bad things. However, when you are getting invaded, can't blame them for fighting back. You can blame the invaders for murdering women and children though.
The ironic thing is that the Cowboys(of 1800's) were the jag bags. Many were the criminals, undesirables, and rejects from the East. If you watch the movie Tombstone, they have a pretty accurate portrayal on their character and douchebaggery.
<< <i>But yet, Wrestlingcardking, our local tribe, The Pasqua Yaqui, embrace Christianity and close down their resort casino and hotel for four days each Spring to celebrate Easter.
Why would they do that if they felt oppressed by these "invaders"? >>
There obviously is nothing wrong with Christianity, but I think the huge difference is when it was forced upon a people to the point where a group of people where abused physically speaking their native language, having their hair cut off, and being made to fit the stereotype of a civilized person. That is my only issue and it has caused a lot of trauma to Indian people. I am sure there are people who would have gravitated to Christianity without being forced into it and that would have been fine.
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
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<< <i>There are many elders that I speak to today and they speak of their boarding school experience and I will cut and paste a little section for you to examine. >>
I think it's awesome the elders you speak with post on Wiki (link 1 and link 2).
edited to add: mglicker, sorry that a thread reminiscing about a tough time in your life was derailed like this. >>
Come on man, you can't tell me that these other threads did not pop up magically without the intention of taunting after the other threads......Edmund and MGlicker both started threads with the nickname after the DC/Landover football team intentionally....no question. If they want to hide and act innocent that is fine, but for me I know better. I can chose to ignore them in the future and I just may.
I gave those links as background and yes, there are elders now that were physically and sexually abused and forced to be non-Indian in boarding schools.
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
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<< <i>There are many elders that I speak to today and they speak of their boarding school experience and I will cut and paste a little section for you to examine. >>
I think it's awesome the elders you speak with post on Wiki (link 1 and link 2).
edited to add: mglicker, sorry that a thread reminiscing about a tough time in your life was derailed like this. >>
Thread derailments are one of the finest traditions of these forums. BTW, you have a great sigline!
<< <i>The mascot debate is one thing, the savage debate is another.
The Indian nations were like any other society, they simply wanted to live a peaceful existence...and like any other society(s), there were parts their society that wanted to conquer, steal, and invade each other.
If you wanted to judge them based on those select, and call them savages, then that would be like judging the whole of the US based on Gary(Indiana), Detroit(parts of), and the West side of Chicago...yikes. I would take my chances going into any of the 500 nations of those days, than I would into Gary, the Westside, or Detroit tonight...unless I was packing.
Other than that, just because they didn't live in big brick and wooden structures...doesn't make them savages.
The Indians got invaded, and fought back...and certainly did bad things. However, when you are getting invaded, can't blame them for fighting back. You can blame the invaders for murdering women and children though.
The ironic thing is that the Cowboys(of 1800's) were the jag bags. Many were the criminals, undesirables, and rejects from the East. If you watch the movie Tombstone, they have a pretty accurate portrayal on their character and douchebaggery. >>
Nice post Skin. That was my point of responding, I read the message last night by Perkdog to my other half and she had worked for the National Indian Education Association in Washington DC and she thought to not respond period because it sounded completely ignorant and I wouldn't be changing the mind of anyone. I took that into consideration and posted anyways. Her point was that people can have a position on the mascot issue but a message like that calling Indians "savages" reeks of ignorance of US history while only "SOME cowboys" were.
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
Can we please stop insulting the Native American peoples on an online sports discussion forum?
wrestlingcardking, I know you want us to know the atrocities the natives went through over the past few centuries, but how is that relevant to this thread? and how is that relevant to the name of a football team?
I'm having a difficult time finding the connection between early 20th century boarding schools and the Washington Redskins.
I'm surprised such a huge fan of professional wrestling, who's history includes some of the most racist people and characters in sports history, will come on here and lecture us on the name of a football team.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
<< <i>Against my best judgment I'm going to jump in:
Can we please stop insulting the Native American peoples on an online sports discussion forum?
wrestlingcardking, I know you want us to know the atrocities the natives went through over the past few centuries, but how is that relevant to this thread? and how is that relevant to the name of a football team?
I'm having a difficult time finding the connection between early 20th century boarding schools and the Washington Redskins.
I'm surprised such a huge fan of professional wrestling, who's history includes some of the most racist people and characters in sports history, will come on here and lecture us on the name of a football team. >>
It would be great to stop the insulting and if it continues I may just ignore it....and Mglicker and edmundfitgerald can continue believing they "won".
A few of the posters (edmund and mglicker) obviously bumped/created other threads and I knew I was taking the bait.
Boarding schools was only provided in response through a comment on Indians being savages yet only some cowboys were bad people (it would be ignorant for me to say that all Indian people were peaceful and everyone else were bad people, broad generalizations are always bad), and I put that information to show that not in the early 20th century but in the mid 20th century, many Indian people were abused for being Indian (people i talk to today) yet the comment was that Indian were savages. Don't you think it is a little crazy to say how civilized people (our society) were when they obviously did not treat others like Indians and African-Americans as equals? I think people are quick to dismiss maltreatment of people as in the past when society's progress and equality for all is just in its infancy to be honest.
The Indian wrestlers were very huge stereotypes as well, agreed. Many of them were Italian. LOL
I do appreciate you jumping in because regardless of what opinion you hold, you appear very sincere.
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i>A few of the posters (edmund and mglicker) obviously bumped/created other threads and I knew I was taking the bait. >>
You were not a consideration when I bumped the old Redskins thread. Did it as a gag post as the story about hiring Shanahan and deciding what to do with Campbell was obviously old news.
Lets talk about racism for a moment. I am Jewish, not partially but 100%. Half of our world population was gassed and burned by a madman in Europe with the help of the fine citizens of Germany that went along with his master plan. You can talk of the Native Americans that were abused by the mean old Christians who forced the Indians into boarding schools, but we were burned to a crisp by the cattle car load (literally) a mere two generations ago.
Now you continue to show a parody of a Jewish man in your posts which is meant to raise the ire of those that think that the Indian mascots are not offensive.
I have not once, nor will I ever object to that image or your right to publish it. Is it flattering? Not particularly, but I don't spend my life pissing and moaning about hurt feelings as you do.
Grow some damn thicker skin.
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<< <i>There are many elders that I speak to today and they speak of their boarding school experience and I will cut and paste a little section for you to examine. >>
I think it's awesome the elders you speak with post on Wiki (link 1 and link 2).
edited to add: mglicker, sorry that a thread reminiscing about a tough time in your life was derailed like this. >>
Come on man, you can't tell me that these other threads did not pop up magically without the intention of taunting after the other threads......Edmund and MGlicker both started threads with the nickname after the DC/Landover football team intentionally....no question. If they want to hide and act innocent that is fine, but for me I know better. I can chose to ignore them in the future and I just may.
I gave those links as background and yes, there are elders now that were physically and sexually abused and forced to be non-Indian in boarding schools. >>
Right. Because no one ever used the term 'Washington Redskins' until after you complained about it here. I suggest you put 'Redskins' in the little search box and look at the dates from previous threads before you make claims like that. I don't know what their intent but neither do you.
As for the Wiki links, I seriously doubt the elders you spoke with wrote those entries. Perhaps they did but I find it extremely unlikely based on their bios. Going forward, when you do a copy/paste and claim they are the people you've spoken with, may want to not only cite a source but also think twice.
belated edit to add: that may come off as a tad too harsh. my apologies. using a wiki entry as personal discussion just *really* rubs my fur the wrong way.
I do have Indian blood in me and you are 100% correct in saying that I truly dont know what tribe and I certainly dont practice anything related to the American Indian culture but I never looked into goverment benefits for having the blood in me nor am I looking to gain anything but I like the fact that I am related somewhere down the line to a tribe that was here long before the settlers.
You should be proud of your heritage as Im sure you are, but I ask you why did it take so long for Indians to become so vocal about Mascots and Team names? It seems that it caught steam recently over the past few years.
Im not sure why nobody complains about the "Fighting Irish" of Notre Dame, an Irishman couldnt get a job early in the 19th century and other than my Great Grandfather I dont think anyone complains about that, I never hear Jewish people complaining about the horrors of WW2, I dont hear Japanese Americans complaining about being segregated during the War, I dont even hear many African Americans complaining about how bad they were treated so when I hear Indians complaining about an innocent Team Mascot or Nickname I just dont feel its that neccesary.
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I'm surprised such a huge fan of professional wrestling, who's history includes some of the most racist people and characters in sports history, will come on here and lecture us on the name of a football team. >>
Wrestlingcardking.......We are very disappointed that you have an autographed Andre the Giant card in your personal collection.
Andre the Giant paired up with Chief Jay Strongbow (an Italian from New York who wore a Native American head-dress), and his tag team partner in a wrestling match in 1976.
Yet you post a picture of a young Native American holding a picture giving us the message that it's not cool (according to you) for people
who are not Native American to wear head-dresses.
Why do you buy cards of Andre the Giant when he paired up with a man who clearly broke your rules ?
You take all the time to post pictures about what's wrong with the "white man", yet you, like others (1985fan who doesn't throw out his
Redskins football cards) do absolutely nothing to stand by what you preach.
We would all respect you much better if you sell at once all your Andre the Giant cards (please provide an EBAY link so that we can see
that you really stand by what you're preaching).
Andre disgraced your people in 1976. There's no way you can come on here and preach this mantra, without truly breaking ways with Andre,
who clearly broke your rules in 1976. Andre and the fake Indians
Chief Jay Strongbow .......A mocker of your people according to the picture you posted on this forum.
<< <i>Thread derailments are one of the finest traditions of these forums. BTW, you have a great sigline! >>
This freaking cracked me up!
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I'm surprised such a huge fan of professional wrestling, who's history includes some of the most racist people and characters in sports history, will come on here and lecture us on the name of a football team. >>
Wrestlingcardking.......We are very disappointed that you have an autographed Andre the Giant card in your personal collection.
Andre the Giant paired up with Chief Jay Strongbow (an Italian from New York who wore a Native American head-dress), and his tag team partner in a wrestling match in 1976.
Yet you post a picture of a young Native American holding a picture giving us the message that it's not cool (according to you) for people
who are not Native American to wear head-dresses.
Why do you buy cards of Andre the Giant when he paired up with a man who clearly broke your rules ?
You take all the time to post pictures about what's wrong with the "white man", yet you, like others (1985fan who doesn't throw out his
Redskins football cards) do absolutely nothing to stand by what you preach.
We would all respect you much better if you sell at once all your Andre the Giant cards (please provide an EBAY link so that we can see
that you really stand by what you're preaching).
Andre disgraced your people in 1976. There's no way you can come on here and preach this mantra, without truly breaking ways with Andre,
who clearly broke your rules in 1976. Andre and the fake Indians
Chief Jay Strongbow .......A mocker of your people according to the picture you posted on this forum. >>
I am really interested in the response to this!
Great point Ed
First and foremost, I must commend Rob (wrestlingcardking) for the nature of his contributions to this topic. If anyone has had a right to intensify throughout these discussions, it would be him. But he hasn't done that. He has openly admitted to being offended, and (to his credit) has calmly explained why with each and every post. I deeply admire that, and it's for that reason I've taken longer than usual to add my dos centavos. If he's hurt, then the least I can do is parse my own words before anyone else does. And although you're about to find out that I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum, it's very important for you to know that I'm not desensitized when it comes to disparaging one's race.
If someone were to ever drop an n-bomb in my presence, self-restraint is the word that immediately comes to mind. I'm 41, white and still grasping for a valid reason to ever hear it. For as long as I've been alive, it has been a no-no. In fact, the mere thought of it makes me cringe. With that said, when trying to equate that example to the name of an NFL franchise that has been around for decades, I simply can't make a connection. And once again, I'm the furthest thing from a bigot as you'll ever find.
Being able to decipher context and intent is oh so imperative. If even the slightest trace of malevolence is involved, then I'll be the first to admit that it's time to reevaluate a particular situation. If not, then impenetrable skin is a must. Otherwise, this great land we live in is going to become virtually unrecognizable at the rate we're going. Freedom of speech will become a thing of the past, all because it'll be impossible for words to exit your trap without offending someone. Next thing you know, each and every one of us will be meandering through life in a robotic state and the human element will be forever lost. Where on earth is the line of demarcation when it comes to what's considered permissible? I'd argue that in the minds of some, there isnt one.
I have always placed Daniel Snyder in the same realm as Jerry Jones -- a sorry owner from a sheer football perspective, yet extremely business savvy. If he wasn't the latter, then I'll go out on a limb and say he never would have been in a position to buy the Redskins to begin with. So with that in mind, if retaining the name results a in detrimental effect on his franchise -- which is in essence his colossal investment -- then we should all line up and immediately examine his acumen. But until that happens, far be it from me to question his motives as it pertains to his team. Now, if I honestly felt like he was perpetuating demeaning stereotypes of Native Americans by keeping the name, then naturally my stance would need to be revisited. But as I attempt to slip on a wise man's hat, I simply don't see it. As a result, whenever I read or hear 'Washington Redskins', it's compartmentalized. The day I allow it to escape beyond the name of a football team is the day I do a great disservice to more prominent issues facing our country.
Not sure how an Andre card in my collection has anything to do with respect for me. I am being judged? Hell, I have Jay Strongbow in my collection. Is that a huge stereotype of what an Indian is? Of course it is. I do not see the harm it does to society though if a card is locked in my safe, or burned outside. Stereotypes that harm or negatively affect people are my primary concern. It has nothing to do with hating the white man, just human decency and equal treatment of all people no matter who you are. I was jumped by a kid that I beat for a conference wrestling title and I forgave that guy and it was the best thing I ever done. He broke my nose by kicking me in the face before a regional tourney and although it was a hard experience to go through forgiveness is something I truly believe in. A few years ago he jumped off a building near my work and killed himself and if I never forgave him I would be a lesser person today, I am glad that I had a few beers with him and told him how I felt and letting it all go. I enjoy engaging in debate sure, I'll challenge anyone here in a physical MMA grappling battle for fun, but in all this my feelings are not hurt.....I am a typical guy but do believe in not just equality, but justice for all people.
All others can PM me their number and I will get back to each and everyone of you if you would like to talk on Native issues or wrestling. Most will be surprised to know that I am not a huge pro wrestling fan, but more so a fan of olympic wrestling. Many of the old pros had amateur backgrounds so I collected all wrestlers to complete sets or just enjoy Andre for being a piece of Americana instead of being a huge fan of the sport.
I'l leave with a little article from an Indian newspaper............
Yet, despite numerous legal proceedings finding the word to be racist, grossly insulting, and highly offensive and derogatory, assurances of this fact by virtually every major American Indian organization, and clear statements in dictionaries, many fans refuse to accept this simple conclusion.
Perhaps one explanation is simply “cognitive dissonance”: the psychological term applied to the mental strain which can result from trying to simultaneously harbor two competing inconsistent beliefs. To relieve the mental distress from the conflict, sufferers often change one belief – kidding themselves into disbelieving something which is obviously true, and replacing it with a belief which is clearly false.
For example, families which have revered a priest their entire lives often cannot accept even overwhelming evidence that he had been a child molester.
Similarly, long time fans – who grew up with the “R*dskins,” revered its players as heroes, and invested so much time and emotional energy in the team – may find it difficult to accept that they are themselves now helping to perpetuate a racist name.
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i>To wrestling card king and his post and pic of quotes from old magazines the reason they were called "Savages" back then was because they used to burn people alive over coals for days, they used to rape woman, kill children, cut off hands and feet, skin people alive, scalp them ect.. ect.. They were in fact savages- like it or not, now Im not saying SOME Cowboys and Soldiers didnt do similar attrocities because they did but unfortunately its apart of the old wild west that is part of our countrys history.
Again Im part American Indian and have no problem with Redskin, Chiefs, ect.. being team names as it gives refference to our American history nothing more nothing less. >>
This is my post that Im quoting. I guess I did disrespect by saying "They were in fact "Savages" like it or not" I SHOULD have posted that SOME were "Savages" and thats where the term came about.
I do apoligize
""Perhaps one explanation is simply “cognitive dissonance”: the psychological term applied to the mental strain which can result from trying to simultaneously harbor two competing inconsistent beliefs. To relieve the mental distress from the conflict, sufferers often change one belief – kidding themselves into disbelieving something which is obviously true, and replacing it with a belief which is clearly false.""
Well yes, of course, this is 2013 so any diversion from the proper left wing thought process must be due to a mental ailment.
No doubt Obamacare will cover the reeducation....ah, treatment cost.
Good god.
<< <i>I was going to be done from the boards here but do have to apologize to stown for any confusion. I did not mean that I spoke to the elders in the wiki entry, just referenced the wiki entry and tried to tie in the experience that Native people had in boarding schools was in fact very recent for Indian people and I have heard similar experiences as well. I have a lot of information to respond to so in essence it was just laziness on my part in not articulating my points clearly. Too much info in a thread, the more likely people will eventually tune you out or of course you can shorten it up and not get your points across. >>
Apology not necessary but appreciated. My words were a tad harsh but considering your background, I was just disappointed you quoted a wiki entry. I do sincerely empathize with your situation and I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.
<< <i>""Perhaps one explanation is simply “cognitive dissonance”: the psychological term applied to the mental strain which can result from trying to simultaneously harbor two competing inconsistent beliefs. To relieve the mental distress from the conflict, sufferers often change one belief – kidding themselves into disbelieving something which is obviously true, and replacing it with a belief which is clearly false.""
Well yes, of course, this is 2013 so any diversion from the proper left wing thought process must be due to a mental ailment.
No doubt Obamacare will cover the reeducation....ah, treatment cost.
Good god. >>
Like I said, sooner or later, it's all Obama's fault, LOL..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.