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Discrepancy between grade on the PCGS label and what comes up on cert verification...has this ever h
mercurydimeguy
Posts: 4,634 ✭✭✭✭
Well this is a first for me...
I just won a coin on from Heritage (the Houston auction...my lot closed). Went online to look up the cert number, and whoa? It shows a different grade. On the PCGS label (a rattle holder) it says MS63 but upon doing a cert verification it shows MS62 on the PCGS website.
I e-mailed Heritage to let them know...and told them we have a small issue.
I'm thinking that either a) they need to void the transaction, or b) they need to get PCGS to change the grade in their system.
Has this ever happened to anyone? If so, how did you resolve it?
Thanks,
/mdg.
I just won a coin on from Heritage (the Houston auction...my lot closed). Went online to look up the cert number, and whoa? It shows a different grade. On the PCGS label (a rattle holder) it says MS63 but upon doing a cert verification it shows MS62 on the PCGS website.
I e-mailed Heritage to let them know...and told them we have a small issue.
I'm thinking that either a) they need to void the transaction, or b) they need to get PCGS to change the grade in their system.
Has this ever happened to anyone? If so, how did you resolve it?
Thanks,
/mdg.
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I'd be asking what's possible on the rattler... Might it get cracked and reholdered?
We now know that Heritage doesn't verify cert numbers before putting a coin on the block.
Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. - Bastiat
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<< <i>I have one in the similar boat. A dmpl label that shows a non DMPL in my inventory. I havent tried to fix it yet but will at some point. >>
What's the little metal thing telling you?
yes. i've seen different grades and attributions from what was on the holder vs what the database stated.
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<< <i>
<< <i>I have one in the similar boat. A dmpl label that shows a non DMPL in my inventory. I havent tried to fix it yet but will at some point. >>
What's the little metal thing telling you? >>
I've been working with Heritage, which initially thought this would not be an issue and be resolved quickly. Just for clarity, I had won 6 coins total and didn't want to pay for this coin until the issue was resolved.
Heritage sent PCGS links to the coin and full pictures, etc., but PCGS said they would need the coin back in hand to review and could not simply make the change.
So, I had asked Heritage to separate out this coin onto a separate invoice, paid the the invoice for the other 5 coins, and now thought I'd wait for some kind of an update. Meanwhile, I have just received an "it's due now" notice on the invoice on the problem coin, so I need to get back to remind them that this invoice is not going to be paid until I hear something, and that it will probably be past due for a while...
So my question is this...should I effectively be waiting for an outcome here and potentially miss opportunities to buy other coins because technically I'm still obligated to this one or should I just ask them to void the transaction altogether? I have no problem with this one, if it is in fact an MS63...but if it is not (PCGS site currently says MS62), then I don't want it, meanwhile I am hesitant to buy another coin to replace it because I now have this liability to Heritage that I don't know how long will take to resolve?
Thanks for your input.
<< <i>Quick update:
I've been working with Heritage, which initially thought this would not be an issue and be resolved quickly. Just for clarity, I had won 6 coins total and didn't want to pay for this coin until the issue was resolved.
Heritage sent PCGS links to the coin and full pictures, etc., but PCGS said they would need the coin back in hand to review and could not simply make the change.
So, I had asked Heritage to separate out this coin onto a separate invoice, paid the the invoice for the other 5 coins, and now thought I'd wait for some kind of an update. Meanwhile, I have just received an "it's due now" notice on the invoice on the problem coin, so I need to get back to remind them that this invoice is not going to be paid until I hear something, and that it will probably be past due for a while...
So my question is this...should I effectively be waiting for an outcome here and potentially miss opportunities to buy other coins because technically I'm still obligated to this one or should I just ask them to void the transaction altogether? I have no problem with this one, if it is in fact an MS63...but if it is not (PCGS site currently says MS62), then I don't want it, meanwhile I am hesitant to buy another coin to replace it because I now have this liability to Heritage that I don't know how long will take to resolve?
Thanks for your input. >>
It's poop or get off the pot time for Heritage. Give them an ultimatum to get the coin fixed with PCGS or cancel the transaction by Friday of this week. They have the pull to get this done in a day. Also insist that they put the sale as pending and send you confirmation that you are not being dinged for not paying.
<< <i>does heritage have a clause that states you can bid on a coin and if you win you don't have to pay if there is a discrepancy between the coin and what the cert number says online ? do all auction houses do that ? >>
Doubt that they do, but it behooves Heritage to know what the hell it is that they are selling. I suppose people should do this kind of due diligence about a coin before they bid, not after.
One would think that PCGS could access the original grades given in order to know what is correct.
<< <i>I suppose people should do this kind of due diligence about a coin before they bid, not after. >>
You are probably right but I've never had to think about it. In fact I found out strictly by accident. I won the lots and was excited to do what/if on my registry set, I added the coin to my inventory and I said, what's this...I must have input the wrong cert #. Then I thought maybe I'm an idiot and bid wrong, in each event my suspicions were negative. It was in fact a MS63 holder, and the cert comes up as MS62 on PCGS website.
I suspect this sort of thing happens more often than we think, but most really never check the cert. I am now acutely aware if this issue and will never bid in a sight unseen coin before checking a cert. For example there is $2.5 Indian on eBay right now that says PCGS MS62 but I checked the cert on PCGS website and it comes up as Unc details, genuine, cleaning...bummer if someone wins it and goes to try to add it to their inventory/registry set.
Back to my case...I will wait it out, I think everyone deserves benefit of doubt. I should give Heritage time to resolve, as long as they don't ding my invoice for fees. If it comes back 62, I am not buying it. If it comes back 63, I'll buy it. If it comes back 64, they better not charge me more
PS. Conspiracy theory aside, I wonder how many crack out gone wrong stories are as a result of this...there is a gold coin on eBay that was PCGS AU53 Old Green Holder that us now in details NGC holder at nearly 50% of the price... Here's the link
<< <i>perhaps i am a bit confused, doesn't heritage usually have nice clear pics of what they are selling ? so if the picture showed a 62 and one could assume that the picture is of the actual coin being sold then it is safe to assume they do in fact know what they are selling, if the coin pictured is not the coin received, a complaint would be warranted but "threatening to not pay for something due to a grade discrepancy (not on the part of heritage) seems almost like a hostage situation. im not going to pay for this until ... then the question would be, how much more is the item worth in a 63 as opposed to a 62 ? >>
Heritage sold a certified coin. The certification is in question. Your GD right Heritage is FULLY responsible to fix this before the buyer takes delivery.
<< <i>I do not like ambiguity. I would cancel the transaction for that particular coin. >>
<< <i>perhaps i am a bit confused, doesn't heritage usually have nice clear pics of what they are selling ? so if the picture showed a 62 and one could assume that the picture is of the actual coin being sold then it is safe to assume they do in fact know what they are selling, if the coin pictured is not the coin received, a complaint would be warranted but "threatening to not pay for something due to a grade discrepancy (not on the part of heritage) seems almost like a hostage situation. im not going to pay for this until ... then the question would be, how much more is the item worth in a 63 as opposed to a 62 ? >>
Perhaps you think one can accurately from pictures; obviously you can't. Additionally, Heritage represented this coin as a PCGS MS63, since PCGS is requiring they return it for review, it may not be a PCGS MS63.
Thanks for all of your input.
PS. I'm trying to give benefit of doubt that this was indeed a mechanical or human error. The only problem is I don't know if it was an error printing the label (e.g the coin is a MS62) or rather the error was entering grade into computer (e.g. the coin is MS63). One can't tell from computer images, certainly not Heritage photos anyway
In a weird way, I'm actually pleased that PCGS would not simply change their computer based on a picture and a claim...even from Heritage. They probably want the coin back to a) see if the slab has been messed with, b) see if the coin is actually a 62 or a 63, and c) try to determine the error so it doesn't happen again. Makes me feel better knowing that they are actually treating this seriously and effectively they will be regrading the coin.