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Forum members: question about slab serial numbers
mercurydimeguy
Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭
Is there a way to tell which year a serial number belongs to?
I was thinking about building a grading set by year...do an 8 piece Type Set and try to get a same grade coin from its respective calendar year, starting in 2013 and go back as far as my wallet allows me to
Let me know any insights.
Thanks.
/mdg.
I was thinking about building a grading set by year...do an 8 piece Type Set and try to get a same grade coin from its respective calendar year, starting in 2013 and go back as far as my wallet allows me to
Let me know any insights.
Thanks.
/mdg.
0
Comments
There's no known year <=> serial connection
One can infer the general time frame based on the slab and label as the stylistic changes were continuous. So for example, based on the research by conder101 and others, we know that coins in PCGS doily holders were certified in December 1989 (or narrowly around that date).
The only certified coins from the "Big Four" TPGs that carried dates were the coins certified when ANACS used photo certificates.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
I think green label holders all had 7 digits.
Michael
<< <i>When blue label holders were first issued, they had 7 digit serial #s. At some point, PCGS switched to 8 digits, sometimes with a leading 0.
I think green label holders all had 7 digits.
Michael >>
I was thinking about that, but early 7 digits appear on a variety of holder/label styles.
WOW....Cameron's site, did someone else take this over?
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
But we do know a lot, based on the attributes of the holder, the cert (color, style, content), even the PCGS sticker/hologram.
It wasn't that long ago that PCGS moved to clear prong gaskets. A couple of years, maybe (though they experimented with them as early as the 2009 UHR, possibly earlier). Recently the cert went from full blue to blue fading to white.
A timeline of recent changes wouldn't be hard to build. But as LindeDad points out, you never really know when a coin was graded, only about when it was last holdered.
Lance.
Let me peel the onion back a bit to see if I can challenge some thoughts...
I've been thinking about doing this kind of a slab year type set/collection (PCGS for now) for a while, and then got to thinking that it might be a useful resource to start a community project to catalogue all the certs (to the extent that is possible). It's not that I have all this spare time, but even if it took a while to get up and running, selfishly speaking, it would be a great resource for me personally to help me out. Others might also find it useful at some point...
On my PCGS account page, I have lists of all the orders I submitted (and the dates -- received and shipped) and within each order are cert numbers. Every member (presumably) has the same thing. So it sounds like there is (at least) a possible data set that can be developed to match certs to a date they were generated (from data we already see in our accounts). The caveat is that initially this data might have to be input manually (e.g. a web portal where people can either fill in a form or upload an XLS file) until a more automated way can be developed to extract and parse data (for example, associating your PCGS account to a would-be cert parser so it can extract submission dates/cert numbers). Not the ideal, but better to have something as a start and it can morph. I'm thinking kind of like the DVDxml.com for TPG the slabs.
Am I completely off my rocker and simply have gone insane from spending too many hours sitting at airports waiting for flights (I travel a lot for my job), or might others find a referenceable database of cert numbers usefuL? And most importantly, would others support a "community" -- e.g. non-profit community service -- approach to developing this? Most importantly, we would need people to do a bit of heavy lifting to start input their slab numbers and dates from submissions, or be willing to upload XLS files with this information.
Thoughts?
PS. OK. I just went and registered www.slablineage.com with 1and1 so I've made the first investment of $7.99
<< <i>That wouldn't get to the really meaty data, the stuff before they went digital. >>
I just looked at my account, and mine go back to 2004...any old times here, can you look at your account and see how far it goes back?
Lance.
A referenceable way to query cert #'s.
For my purpose, I would be able to go to a website and put in cert #'s of coins I like, and it would give me the years those cert #s were created. Conversely, I can ask it for (in example), list all the $5 gold Liberty in MS62 that were graded between date X and date Y to get an idea of the sample size...
The possibilities are endless with the kind of analytics that can be developed over time, but like I said, for my purpose, if something like this existed, it would help me build year grading sets...I was thinking of building a year grading set (in one common grade, say MS62) consisting of 8 coins (have not settled in on the coins yet but not ridiculously expensive) and build them for 2013, 2012, 2011, etc., as far back as I can go.
That's the gist of it anyway...
<< <i>You don't want the best answer?; even if it comes from a non-'tenured' forum member? >>
Hey, good call. My bad... No harm intended...
<< <i>
<< <i>You don't want the best answer?; even if it comes from a non-'tenured' forum member? >>
Hey, good call. My bad... No harm intended...
No worries my friend!...I think just bad coincidence with some other hot posts.
Given the number of crackouts, I'm not sure that a database of cert numbers would be useful for very long.
For example, let's say you do create the database of your dreams, but in a year or two or three, you could query the database and (depending on the exact query), you might get back a substantial percentage of "bad data" (for cert numbers that no longer exist) and you wouldn't even know it.
Check out the Southern Gold Society
Others have given you the reasons for it. Also add in the sheer volume of graded coins by PCGS. Their database has the info, and has been ongoing, but to try to come in from the outside, from scratch, and do it? Yeah, right. Good luck
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
And I don't think that would be very easy!
I referenced DVDxml but some of you might not be familiar with how that works. People basically electronically submit updates and keep the database fresh.
Same idea for certs ... it would rely on people contributing on an ongoing basis (somewhat like Wiki also) and crackouts over the long run wouldn't be so skewing because the original cert would be captured at a given grade and date and then the new cert would be captured again at a given grade, etc., and a person would only be looking up a specific cert to see when it was graded.
The real question that I go back to is...is the historical information about when a coin was slabbed either interesting or relevant? If not, this will be a personal journey of part detective work/part coin collecting, but if it is, then this could potentially become somewhat of a community type project that could be supported by people's willingness.
PS. At the same time, PCGS could help out by adding the date the coin was graded to the information they provide when you look up a cert #... this would clearly be the preferred option
<< <i>Good feedback, thanks people!
Let me peel the onion back a bit to see if I can challenge some thoughts...
I've been thinking about doing this kind of a slab year type set/collection (PCGS for now) for a while, and then got to thinking that it might be a useful resource to start a community project to catalogue all the certs (to the extent that is possible). It's not that I have all this spare time, but even if it took a while to get up and running, selfishly speaking, it would be a great resource for me personally to help me out. Others might also find it useful at some point...
On my PCGS account page, I have lists of all the orders I submitted (and the dates -- received and shipped) and within each order are cert numbers. Every member (presumably) has the same thing. So it sounds like there is (at least) a possible data set that can be developed to match certs to a date they were generated (from data we already see in our accounts). The caveat is that initially this data might have to be input manually (e.g. a web portal where people can either fill in a form or upload an XLS file) until a more automated way can be developed to extract and parse data (for example, associating your PCGS account to a would-be cert parser so it can extract submission dates/cert numbers). Not the ideal, but better to have something as a start and it can morph. I'm thinking kind of like the DVDxml.com for TPG the slabs.
Am I completely off my rocker and simply have gone insane from spending too many hours sitting at airports waiting for flights (I travel a lot for my job), or might others find a referenceable database of cert numbers usefuL? And most importantly, would others support a "community" -- e.g. non-profit community service -- approach to developing this? Most importantly, we would need people to do a bit of heavy lifting to start input their slab numbers and dates from submissions, or be willing to upload XLS files with this information.
Thoughts?
PS. OK. I just went and registered www.slablineage.com with 1and1 so I've made the first investment of $7.99
Why not just go to the "Shared Orders Pages" and start pulling dates "when coins were shipped" and making note of the certification numbers?
For Example,
Nov/Dec 2001
Oct/Nov 2001
June 2007
Jul/Sep 2004
Notice how the 2001 Cert Numbers begin with 2101**** and 0374**** for the same calendar year?
Notice how June 2007 has certs 0597**** while July 2004 has 4005****
Lastly, it is important to understand that certification numbers are assigned when the coins are received. Not when they are graded.
As for cataloging all the certification numbers, with the shared orders, there are literally hundreds of thousands of shared certification numbers back to 2001 (as shown) to start with so, get your Collectors Club Membership fired up and start swinging away!
The name is LEE!
<< <i>The first four digits have some reference to when the coin was received/submitted from what I can see. >>
Not............
(See Above Screen Shots)
The name is LEE!
<< <i>The real question that I go back to is...is the historical information about when a coin was slabbed either interesting or relevant? >>
While the interest in the date "could" be used as a hype tool, provided the coin was graded during a period where folks "perceived" the grading to be loose or tight, the relevance is totally unimportant given PCGS's grade buyback guarantee.
Besides, the Old Green Holders and Rattlers already suffer from that hype and the only folks that really fall for it are those who think that this is a simple way of getting upgrades which could not be further from the truth.
The name is LEE!
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
my interest in developing grading sets by year has nothing sinister in its genesis
anyhow, my core question has been answered regarding whether or not the serial numbers have any way to reference a grading date...apparently not.
The latter input regarding building a tool to be used by all was also helpful.
Thx.
/mdg.