Has The Mint eliminated some errors/varieties?
Icollecteverything
Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭
Or made them less common?
What got me thinking about this was a clad dime I found years ago in circulation with a small clip. I think it's a 79. It seems like this type of error would occur less now with modern manufacturing design and equipment.
Mintmarks: Seems unlikely we will ever see another D over S or anything like that. (already on each die)
Double dies: I think there are still plenty of minor double dies happening now.
Laminations: I have not seen many on coins dated in the 50's and up.
Die cracks: Still lots of tiny fine cracks in modern coins but very few large cracks or cuds.
Anyone have any information/observations to confirm any of these or other errors?
What got me thinking about this was a clad dime I found years ago in circulation with a small clip. I think it's a 79. It seems like this type of error would occur less now with modern manufacturing design and equipment.
Mintmarks: Seems unlikely we will ever see another D over S or anything like that. (already on each die)
Double dies: I think there are still plenty of minor double dies happening now.
Laminations: I have not seen many on coins dated in the 50's and up.
Die cracks: Still lots of tiny fine cracks in modern coins but very few large cracks or cuds.
Anyone have any information/observations to confirm any of these or other errors?
Successful BST deals with mustangt and jesbroken. Now EVERYTHING is for sale.
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The workers at the coin depots used to pull out errors and sell them to error coin dealers.
Some time back (Fred Weinberg could give you a good idea when) the Mint came down hard on the depots and demanded that they return all errors to the Mint. I have heard that they threatened to stop selling coins in bulk to any facility that did not obey this order. Since that time the supply of modern errors has dramatically decreased.
<< <i>A lot of coins get shipped in bulk to coin depots, such as armored car companies, which wrap the coins in rolls for sale to merchants.
The workers at the coin depots used to pull out errors and sell them to error coin dealers.
Some time back (Fred Weinberg could give you a good idea when) the Mint came down hard on the depots and demanded that they return all errors to the Mint. I have heard that they threatened to stop selling coins in bulk to any facility that did not obey this order. Since that time the supply of modern errors has dramatically decreased. >>
The crackdown on the counting rooms happened in the early 2000s, not long after the Sacagawea mules found their way into circulation. Other factors that served to reduce Mint error, which came into play around the same time, are the advent of the Schuler horizontal press, which all but eliminated off-center strikes of more than a few degrees, and the use of pallet-sized ballistic bags for shipment to the counting rooms, which brought an end to the days of searching Mint bags.
Clipped planchets are one of the few errors still available in any reasonable quantity for collectors today, though even those are found in far smaller numbers than before the Mint quality crackdown of the early 2000s.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
The supply of new material has all but dried up, yes a few super modern errors to get out, but very few.
Less supply ... add a little demand, and we could have a very nice run ......
As Seanq nailed it - a combination of factors have
virtually eliminated certain error coins, and have
made others extremely rare.
For Example: (just going back 15 years)
When the economy is good, and coinage is
needed for commerce, mintages go up. I believe
that for the year 2000, for example, total mintages
for all non-bullion US coins was something like
24 Billion coins. That kind of production leads to
double shifts, new employees working machinery,
and the presses running fast and furious.
Error coins for 1998 to 2001 were numerous -
off centers, broadstrikes of varying sizes, off metals,
double strikes, and so on.
Eight years later, total mintages were below 10 Billion -
I think something around 7 Billion coins - so, less
pressure, less other work to do on the Mint floor, and
the presses could be checked for proper operation
more often - and less coins simply means less errors made.
In addition, by the middle of 2001, most of the Presses
in Phily and Denver were the newer Schuler horizontal
presses (some exeptions for each denomination, and
I believe that Half dollars are not struck on Schulers)
By striking coins horizontally, it (mostly) eliminates double
strikes and off centers - simply because if a coin is mis-fed
into a horizontal press, it literally falls down, instead of
being mis-fed over the hole in the collar, as in the older
press styles. Another extinct error is the fold-over strike,
for this reason.
There have been some dramatic multi-struck and off center
coins in the past 13 years or so, but they are few and
far between, and due to a major press malfunction, instead
of the more common malfunction in the older days that would
have produced hundreds or possibly thousands of off center
coins before they were caught.
Just look at the prices for major Off Center Cents dated 2002
up to today - they're $500+ to Unknown for some recent dates.
And, yes, about 10 years ago the Mint told Brinks, for instance,
that they had to Cut and return all error coins they find when
they roll coins, back to the Mint, otherwise they would loose
their contract to perform that function for the Mint.
I'd say that with the exception of the Missing Edge Lettering
coins (still being found as of 2012) because they are perfectly
round, and struck normally, but missing the Edge Lettering
Operation, the US Mint has eliminated roughly 95% of the
mechanical errors that are either produced at the Mint, or
are released.
As in anything, there are exceptions, and what I've said is
a good general overview of what's happened to the Mint
Error supply in the past 10-15 years.
CaptH, I had heard about the errors being found at the armored car companies but not that the mint had put a stop to it.
Thanks to all for your comments, I think this is pretty interesting.
Successful BST deals with mustangt and jesbroken. Now EVERYTHING is for sale.
any reports (that I'm aware of) for
rotated Reverse coinage since 2007,
there have been plenty of 1999 States
Quarters with RR's up to 180 degrees,
and some 2000 Sacs and 2007 Adams
Dollars with major rotated reverses.
By the way, the Mint's tolerance for
RR dies is 27 degrees. Don't ask me
why it's not 25 or 30, but there's a
sign on some of the presses at the
Phily mint that say the tolerance is 27d.
Yes very modern major mint errors are extremely rare ...
2013 D ds
<< <i>Check out the price on this 2003 D double struck cent ..... $511 ........ Had it been minted a few years earlier, it would be worth only a fraction of the price.
Yes very modern major mint errors are extremely rare ...
2013 D ds >>
"Brockage???"
<< <i>Actually, although there hasn't been
any reports (that I'm aware of) for
rotated Reverse coinage since 2007,
there have been plenty of 1999 States
Quarters with RR's up to 180 degrees,
and some 2000 Sacs and 2007 Adams
Dollars with major rotated reverses.
By the way, the Mint's tolerance for
RR dies is 27 degrees. Don't ask me
why it's not 25 or 30, but there's a
sign on some of the presses at the
Phily mint that say the tolerance is 27d. >>
Knowing the way that some bureaucrats think, I would guess that at one point the tolerance was 30 degrees, and somebody said "Let's reduce that by 10%!"
Now THAT'S the most logical explaination
I've heard so far !!!
<< <i>
<< <i>Check out the price on this 2003 D double struck cent ..... $511 ........ Had it been minted a few years earlier, it would be worth only a fraction of the price.
Yes very modern major mint errors are extremely rare ...
2013 D ds >>
"Brockage???" >>
Ya I saw that in the description too. So many people use the wrong error terms all the time, I just kinda overlook them and just look at the photography.
<< <i>Tom,
Now THAT'S the most logical explaination
I've heard so far !!! >>
Bureaucrats like to do things by percentages. There is one rare type of $50 bill from the late 1800's that the the Treasury Dept. used to carry on its outstanding face value report at $25 outstanding. Maybe they still do.
Coinupdate.com article
Congressional Dollars in the past.....including
one I just sold at the ANA in Chicago this year.
It's popular because it's large,silver, and
mentioned in the Red Book. (in addition
to being rotated exactly 180 degrees)