Home U.S. Coin Forum

Has The Mint eliminated some errors/varieties?

Or made them less common?

What got me thinking about this was a clad dime I found years ago in circulation with a small clip. I think it's a 79. It seems like this type of error would occur less now with modern manufacturing design and equipment.

Mintmarks: Seems unlikely we will ever see another D over S or anything like that. (already on each die)

Double dies: I think there are still plenty of minor double dies happening now.

Laminations: I have not seen many on coins dated in the 50's and up.

Die cracks: Still lots of tiny fine cracks in modern coins but very few large cracks or cuds.

Anyone have any information/observations to confirm any of these or other errors?

Successful BST deals with mustangt and jesbroken. Now EVERYTHING is for sale.

Comments

  • DentuckDentuck Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭
    I think rotated dies are pretty much a thing of the past.



  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,630 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A lot of coins get shipped in bulk to coin depots, such as armored car companies, which wrap the coins in rolls for sale to merchants.

    The workers at the coin depots used to pull out errors and sell them to error coin dealers.

    Some time back (Fred Weinberg could give you a good idea when) the Mint came down hard on the depots and demanded that they return all errors to the Mint. I have heard that they threatened to stop selling coins in bulk to any facility that did not obey this order. Since that time the supply of modern errors has dramatically decreased.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • seanqseanq Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>A lot of coins get shipped in bulk to coin depots, such as armored car companies, which wrap the coins in rolls for sale to merchants.

    The workers at the coin depots used to pull out errors and sell them to error coin dealers.

    Some time back (Fred Weinberg could give you a good idea when) the Mint came down hard on the depots and demanded that they return all errors to the Mint. I have heard that they threatened to stop selling coins in bulk to any facility that did not obey this order. Since that time the supply of modern errors has dramatically decreased. >>




    The crackdown on the counting rooms happened in the early 2000s, not long after the Sacagawea mules found their way into circulation. Other factors that served to reduce Mint error, which came into play around the same time, are the advent of the Schuler horizontal press, which all but eliminated off-center strikes of more than a few degrees, and the use of pallet-sized ballistic bags for shipment to the counting rooms, which brought an end to the days of searching Mint bags.

    Clipped planchets are one of the few errors still available in any reasonable quantity for collectors today, though even those are found in far smaller numbers than before the Mint quality crackdown of the early 2000s.


    Sean Reynolds
    Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.

    "Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Supply and demand ......

    The supply of new material has all but dried up, yes a few super modern errors to get out, but very few.

    Less supply ... add a little demand, and we could have a very nice run ......
  • MedalCollectorMedalCollector Posts: 2,011 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There are many, many partial collar dimes produced in the last few years, many cent die clashes, a few clips, a few broadstrikes, a few struck throughs, and a few off centers of various denominations. There are also some other, more major errors of various types produced in the last 2 or 3 years. The numbers of what errors are produced are much, much smaller compared to what they used to be, though.
  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,913 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Good Mornin' all -

    As Seanq nailed it - a combination of factors have
    virtually eliminated certain error coins, and have
    made others extremely rare.

    For Example: (just going back 15 years)

    When the economy is good, and coinage is
    needed for commerce, mintages go up. I believe
    that for the year 2000, for example, total mintages
    for all non-bullion US coins was something like
    24 Billion coins. That kind of production leads to
    double shifts, new employees working machinery,
    and the presses running fast and furious.
    Error coins for 1998 to 2001 were numerous -
    off centers, broadstrikes of varying sizes, off metals,
    double strikes, and so on.

    Eight years later, total mintages were below 10 Billion -
    I think something around 7 Billion coins - so, less
    pressure, less other work to do on the Mint floor, and
    the presses could be checked for proper operation
    more often - and less coins simply means less errors made.

    In addition, by the middle of 2001, most of the Presses
    in Phily and Denver were the newer Schuler horizontal
    presses (some exeptions for each denomination, and
    I believe that Half dollars are not struck on Schulers)

    By striking coins horizontally, it (mostly) eliminates double
    strikes and off centers - simply because if a coin is mis-fed
    into a horizontal press, it literally falls down, instead of
    being mis-fed over the hole in the collar, as in the older
    press styles. Another extinct error is the fold-over strike,
    for this reason.

    There have been some dramatic multi-struck and off center
    coins in the past 13 years or so, but they are few and
    far between, and due to a major press malfunction, instead
    of the more common malfunction in the older days that would
    have produced hundreds or possibly thousands of off center
    coins before they were caught.

    Just look at the prices for major Off Center Cents dated 2002
    up to today - they're $500+ to Unknown for some recent dates.

    And, yes, about 10 years ago the Mint told Brinks, for instance,
    that they had to Cut and return all error coins they find when
    they roll coins, back to the Mint, otherwise they would loose
    their contract to perform that function for the Mint.

    I'd say that with the exception of the Missing Edge Lettering
    coins (still being found as of 2012) because they are perfectly
    round, and struck normally, but missing the Edge Lettering
    Operation, the US Mint has eliminated roughly 95% of the
    mechanical errors that are either produced at the Mint, or
    are released.

    As in anything, there are exceptions, and what I've said is
    a good general overview of what's happened to the Mint
    Error supply in the past 10-15 years.
    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,630 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Does anybody have a good picture of the working area of a Schuler press, or ideally a very-slow-motion video of one in operation? I stood right next to one that was running at the Philadelphia Mint, but between the high speed and the cloudy safety cover I could not see a darn thing!
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • Dentuck, I think you are correct about rotated dies. Seems like any easy problem to fix, too. I don't recall any moderns with anything but very minor rotation. Pretty common in the 1800's and not much premium.

    CaptH, I had heard about the errors being found at the armored car companies but not that the mint had put a stop to it.

    Thanks to all for your comments, I think this is pretty interesting.



    Successful BST deals with mustangt and jesbroken. Now EVERYTHING is for sale.

  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,913 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Actually, although there hasn't been
    any reports (that I'm aware of) for
    rotated Reverse coinage since 2007,
    there have been plenty of 1999 States
    Quarters with RR's up to 180 degrees,
    and some 2000 Sacs and 2007 Adams
    Dollars with major rotated reverses.

    By the way, the Mint's tolerance for
    RR dies is 27 degrees. Don't ask me
    why it's not 25 or 30, but there's a
    sign on some of the presses at the
    Phily mint that say the tolerance is 27d.

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Check out the price on this 2003 D double struck cent ..... $511 ........ Had it been minted a few years earlier, it would be worth only a fraction of the price.

    Yes very modern major mint errors are extremely rare ...

    2013 D ds
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,630 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Check out the price on this 2003 D double struck cent ..... $511 ........ Had it been minted a few years earlier, it would be worth only a fraction of the price.

    Yes very modern major mint errors are extremely rare ...

    2013 D ds >>



    "Brockage???"
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,630 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Actually, although there hasn't been
    any reports (that I'm aware of) for
    rotated Reverse coinage since 2007,
    there have been plenty of 1999 States
    Quarters with RR's up to 180 degrees,
    and some 2000 Sacs and 2007 Adams
    Dollars with major rotated reverses.

    By the way, the Mint's tolerance for
    RR dies is 27 degrees. Don't ask me
    why it's not 25 or 30, but there's a
    sign on some of the presses at the
    Phily mint that say the tolerance is 27d. >>



    Knowing the way that some bureaucrats think, I would guess that at one point the tolerance was 30 degrees, and somebody said "Let's reduce that by 10%!"

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,913 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Tom,

    Now THAT'S the most logical explaination
    I've heard so far !!!
    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Check out the price on this 2003 D double struck cent ..... $511 ........ Had it been minted a few years earlier, it would be worth only a fraction of the price.

    Yes very modern major mint errors are extremely rare ...

    2013 D ds >>



    "Brockage???" >>



    Ya I saw that in the description too. So many people use the wrong error terms all the time, I just kinda overlook them and just look at the photography.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,630 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Tom,

    Now THAT'S the most logical explaination
    I've heard so far !!! >>



    Bureaucrats like to do things by percentages. There is one rare type of $50 bill from the late 1800's that the the Treasury Dept. used to carry on its outstanding face value report at $25 outstanding. Maybe they still do.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • kiyotekiyote Posts: 5,588 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There was a pretty dramatic 180 degree rotated commemorative congressional dollar out there...

    Coinupdate.com article
    "I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.
  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,913 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've sold about 8-10 of the Rotated Reverse
    Congressional Dollars in the past.....including
    one I just sold at the ANA in Chicago this year.

    It's popular because it's large,silver, and
    mentioned in the Red Book. (in addition
    to being rotated exactly 180 degrees)
    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file