1917 Mercury Dime opinions please

lostincoins

Ok so here is a 1917 Mercury dime for your viewing and opinions. I see scratches on the coin and am not sure if it is worth purchasing. I like the coloring ans it is a bit more vibrant than the pics in hand. The B&M shop I go to let me take the pics as they are offering it to me but to be honest it seems off to me so I told them I would get some opinions. So please let me know what you think and thank you ahead of time. Oh it is being offered to me at $100.00 which would be MSFB 64 pricing. Like I said I like the coloring but I don't want to make an uninformed purchase on this on as I would be keeping it for my boys Merc Dime set. sorry about the pics best I could do at the time.

CoinJunkie

Looks very AT.

keyman64

AU Cleaned Scratched and Re-toned Artificially. Not a coin for me.

ModCrewman

<< <i>Looks very AT. >>


I'd also add that it appears to me that the obverse has been wiped.

If you like the coin pay what you're comfortable with; but I'd never buy it expecting that it'd grade or that I'd make money on it.

lostincoins

What is the best way to identify AT when looking at silver coins or coins in general?

Patches

My honest opinion is it's AU55 details, artificial toned, cleaned, scratched...I wouldn't pay $5 for it.

-Steve

kimber45ACP

no bueno

lostincoins

I was going to keep it in a book we have of Merc dimes no intention of grading it I know it has been wiped/cleaned at some point. My oldes son liked the colors also but I would rather spend 100.00 on something that is persay real than AT if that is what this coin is. The other issues are ok for us as we do circulated sets so we expext some to have damage or cleaning at some point.

Justlooking

Definitely toned in a very unnatural way.

According to the price guide, an MS64 example, with full bands, can be had for around $100. I'd rather have an example with good, honest wear than this one.

DIMEMAN

Run away! I would not pay xf money for that coin! Way to many scratches...toooo much wear and definitely AT'ed.

JMHO

lostincoins

Thank you for the input usually this dealer is very up and up but maybe he is trying to get back at me for cherry picking him so much lol I have found many error coins at this place because he does not look for them it seems at all.

lostincoins

I was going to offer 20.00 just because I have found a good number of cherries at this place but I do tell him when I find them and he just states what ever the price is marked do you want it lol

Mowgli

<< <i>My honest opinion is it's AU55 details, artificial toned, cleaned, scratched...I wouldn't pay $5 for it.

-Steve >>



I agree.

lcoopie

if they offered it to you for $100 I would not trust anything that they tell you

it's got $1.44 in value as melt

Steve27

Looks to me like someone tried to tone the coin to cover-up the harsh cleaning.

lostincoins

any value in it if I were to say dip it? I know it is a lost cause because of the harsh cleaning/scratches but the FB is still cool

CoinJunkie

<< <i>If you like the coin pay what you're comfortable with; but I'd never buy it expecting that it'd grade or that I'd make money on it. >>


My advice would be: If you like the coin, don't buy any coins until you educate yourself enough to not like the coin...

EDIT: Or stick to slabbed coins.

jmj3esq

Possible cleaning with added artificial toning.

DIMEMAN

Sorry to bash this coin again, but I would hate to see you waste money on something like this. I would not trust a dealer that would price this at $100. It's a terrible coin that I would not own at any price. The 1917 is very common and will be easy to find real nice for hardly any money.

lcoopie

<< <i>any value in it if I were to say dip it? I know it is a lost cause because of the harsh cleaning/scratches but the FB is still cool >>



$1.44

lcoopie

now, $1.435

lostincoins

Thank you coin junkie when it comes to actual investment pieces those are in PCGS holders. When it comes to circulated sets or items my boys and I like I ask when I do not have enough info of my own. I keep a wider view of things instead of a narrow view which allows me to experience many more things in life and in the coin world. If people only made purchases based on their limited knowledge then things would be just plain boring and the numismatic hobby would become a very boring and stagnate, not my cup of tea as they say. I enjoy learniing about many things not just a few.....

BustCuds

Cleaned, scratched and artificial toned

291fifth

If you even considered buying this coin for a minute you need to step back and learn how to grade, detect cleaning and artificial toning before you spend another cent on coins.

You also need to find another dealer.

Sorry to be so blunt, but that coin is a dog.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

AMRC

I keep waiting for the punch-line.

Bullion.

lostincoins

many people have told me I need to go get educated and I don't know what I am doing but not one has stated how to tell a coin has been AT or what on this coin shows that it is AT. Someone who would like to know this would not find that information in this thread even though that was one of the main questions. One can not learn when information to learn from is absent. Could some one who is good at describing the issues present on coins that show a coin has been artificially toned/colored please add some of that information to this thread. It is also important to remember that we all see things differently, we like different things and all have different levels of education whether in numismatics or any other given field. Thank you all for your comments and help.

agentjim007

They are taking you for a sucker. $5 at most and that's only if you really like it.

indeetlib

<< <i>many people have told me I need to go get educated and I don't know what I am doing but not one has stated how to tell a coin has been AT or what on this coin shows that it is AT. Someone who would like to know this would not find that information in this thread even though that was one of the main questions. One can not learn when information to learn from is absent. Could some one who is good at describing the issues present on coins that show a coin has been artificially toned/colored please add some of that information to this thread. It is also important to remember that we all see things differently, we like different things and all have different levels of education whether in numismatics or any other given field. Thank you all for your comments and help. >>



I think the reason no one here has given you a specific, end-all answer to your inquiry is that there is no such answer. The ability to distinguish an artificially toned coin from a naturally toned coin cannot be learned overnight. It takes looking at thousands of coins over many years to begin to feel comfortable making such calls. The coin you posted is obviously an AT coin to my eye, first and foremost because the coin is worn and a circulated coin couldn't possibly tone that way unless it has been cleaned or altered. One could go into a detailed description of why the colors and pattern of toning are wrong, but I'm not sure that would be so helpful for you, because it might not ever be able to be replicated or used on another coin.

As an aside, I have read through many of your threads and I admire your enthusiasm and would never discourage you from posting here, but my advice is to slow down, soak in everything everybody here is saying and don't be in a rush to master every aspect of the coin hobby. The fact that numismatics is a slowly learned, never mastered field of study is what makes it so wonderful.

BryceM

OK. First, the coin shows quite a bit of wear. This makes it circulated. There are circulated coins with nice toning, but not usually like this. There is a small possibility that this coin has toned naturally, but it is far more likely that someone played with it. How do you know what an AT coin looks like? Well, take a look at a few thousand PCGS / NGC slabbed coins. After that, you should have a pretty reasonable internal sense of what is OK and what isn't. That might sound daunting, but at a large show you should be able to glance at a few hundred coins in an afternoon. Auciton lot viewing is another fantastic way to calibrate your eye.

The coin isn't hairlined, it's gouged. Well, maybe not gouged, but these are more than trivial scratches. In other words, it's a problem coin to start with. This coin has absolutely zero chance of getting into a slab at MS grades. Zero!

At the end of the day, it's your money, and you can do what you want with it, but the resale value of this coin at a show or at an auction house is less than $2.

I'd recommend buying only coins in slabs if you plan on spending more than $100 or so. Actually, if you were tempted by this one, I'd recommend buying only coins in slabs, bullion possibly excepted. This coin is light years away from MS64FB value.

Manorcourtman

Find a new BM. They are trying to hose you.

lostincoins

Thank you for the incite and info indeetlib. It does make it harder to learn when there are not answers to the questions lol I do like knowing what people have to say especially when it furthers my education in this field. I am slowly changing from a hoarder to a collector which does include the necessity to sell of portions of that hoard to finance the collection.

coinbuf

Its not as easy as 123 here is the answer, AT is something you learn after seeing many examples of both natural and AT color progression and how the colors look on the coin. The coin you posted the colors look painted on, the colors are not the proper progression and thay do not flow. Here is a good thread to read which gives some solid data, review the first post and look at the coin he posts then look at the one you have posted, the difference is night and day.
Sunnywood

Edited to add: Also baised on what I see this coin even if it was not messed with, and was an MS coin, still would not grade FB. The center bands have a small area in the center that, at least on my screen, to be touching.

magikbilly

Hello :-)

I have to chime in and say do not trust anyone that is offering this for $100. Anything from such a dealer is now suspect IMO - he maybe ripping you off on a regular basis. If I had that and your son liked the colors I would give it to him.

You got it correct in your first post about this dime - "...it seems off to me..." - trust yourself. Asking questions is always a good thing

Best wishes,
Eric

AngryTurtle

After reading this thread I agree wholeheartedly with Eric: at this point in you numismatic learning (and we all have been there) the key is to discover who is honest and trustworthy (there are lots of dealers in this category) and who is dishonest and unethical ( there are lots in this category as well). When you find a good dealer and you do some business with them they will teach you many invaluable lessons if you will just ask and listen.




<< <i>Hello :-)

I have to chime in and say do not trust anyone that is offering this for $100. Anything from such a dealer is now suspect IMO - he maybe ripping you off on a regular basis. If I had that and your son liked the colors I would give it to him.

You got it correct in your first post about this dime - "...it seems off to me..." - trust yourself. Asking questions is always a good thing

Best wishes,
Eric >>

JRocco

Without reading all the reply's...so sorry if this has been said.
It a dealer is offering you that coin for 100 bucks without telling you it has been boinked past the point of no return, then be leery in the future.

That coin would go into my bullion bag at this point. The damage done to her trying to AT her has ruined the metal.
Not to mention the physical damage done on the obverse trying to clean her up.
Run away from that coin for more than VG money at best.

lostincoins

Thanks all I appreciat it and I bookmarked the link for future reference

Broadstruck

<< <i>The B&M shop I go to let me take the pics as they are offering it to me but to be honest it seems off to me so I told them I would get some opinions. So please let me know what you think and thank you ahead of time. Oh it is being offered to me at $100.00 >>



If there's such a thing as karma maybe it will trap this B&M dealer in a elevator forced to listen to Air Supply's Lost In Love 100 times before the doors reopen

lostincoins

every one who has a toning question should be given that link. It clearly describes the process and what to look for. I am going to keep an eye on the merc and watch for continued color change indicating the AT and will take pics if he does not pull it over the next couple of weeks and we will be able to see an unnatural shifting in the colors that are not possible on NT coins in a short time frame. There are aspects of the rainbow that could be natural but the vast majority is definitely progressing in the wrong way. If the B7M will let me have it for 20.00 I will get it and call it tuition for my sons' and my self and we can then do an extended pictorial progression on AT silver. What think you all to that idea?

jdimmick

Melt value

a turd , to say the least

jdimmick

Oh and I might add,

Please don't take this the wrong way, but if this coin has even the slightest appeal to you, you need to spend time educating yourself on whats nice, and whats original, and what to stay away from. Also, any dealer offering a coin like this at 100 bucks is either a crook, or at least somebody you need to stay away from !

PTVETTER

Sooooo many negatives, if you like it, that is the only thing that counts.
However as a B&M owner, someone should have advised you of the proper condition of the dime.
Then on the other hand you should have known that yourself.

lostincoins

negativity runs rampant around here, it is just how it is. It also seems that everyone is supposed to be born with an innate numismatic understanding of everything coin related.Unfortunately I was not born an idiot savant of numismatics and therefore have to at times ask questions about this subject, hobby and business. I also was not born with a numismatic silver spoon in my mouth and have to work my way up in this field. If you would like to buy a vintage sousaphone, french horn, melophone, trumpet, coronet or bugle I can help you out there. Positive thoughts achieve positive results. Failure is never final and success is never ending. If you lead a negative life life will be negative to you etc.... Cant we all be nice to each other, support one another and just be encouraging to prosper the hobby and those in it and yet to begin?

Type2

Let's say it in a nice way this coin is Sliver and worth that the color is cool looking but gives the coin no extra value, The Dealer is not giveing you any brakes. You can find some very nice coins for that kind of $$$ at that price stay away from it just say it nice but not for me...... Dealer know he shuld tell you.

coinbuf

If your comfortable spending the $20 and using it as a learning experiment, then thats fine. I would not personaly but it's your choice. Keep in mind that the color on that may not change very much if at all for a year or longer, much of that will depend on the conditions it will be stored in. Really the best thing you can learn from that coin is what not to buy in the future.

1tommy

I would LOVE to hear the Dealers Side Of this Story................Just Sayin....................Enjoy

CoinJunkie

To the OP:

Well, there certainly are people on the forum for whom the glass is perpetually half-empty, but when you post an
abomination and ask for opinions, "negativity" is what you're likely to get in response. Don't consider it a reflection
on yourself.

lkeigwin

To be blunt, even if that dime had natural toning (and it obviously doesn't) it is still a loser. It is damaged from mistreatment and nothing can undo that.

I would be leery about doing further business with that dealer.
Lance.

lostincoins

Thank you all and as for the dealers side of the story they are a shop that has a spotty rep that was taken over in a very bitter battle by the children of the owner when he died. I would record the conversations except for the fact that I find that creepy. The dealer has a lot of NAC slabbed coins on display for sale right next to PCGS and NGC and tends to represent them as the same quality. This is the dealer who does not look for errors not even easy to see Peace Dollar VAMs. As stated previously I think the guy is messing with me and I will discuss with him what was stated in this post. Again thank you for all the help.

Type2

I would pick up a CP book and look it over pick one or two dates go back dayley or every other and start your new hobby.

magikbilly

Hello

I would not even go back there. Try looking here at these dimes. DLRC is an excellent dealer. You spoke of about $20...were maybe going to spend $100...
I am not looking to get into a discussion about these Mercury dimes, or NGC vs PCGS or anything else. I am just saying this is a great dealer in my experience and you will get what you are paying for. You can get descriptions over the phone and ask questions too. They treat you very well big or small. I was treated very well buying Pr Seated and Barber, or a $18 PCGD MS65 RD common wheatie for my Uncle's birthday.
John and company are class act. You don't have to spend a million to be treated like a million. And you can do it from home I grabbed these dates at random - NGC and a PCGS at bottom - there are a lot there from many series that fit your $:


1940 NGC MS66 $45 of make an offer

1940 NGC MS65 FB $60 or make an offer

1942-D NGC MS65 $35 or make an offer

1943 NGC MS65 $35 or make an ofer

1943-D PCGS MS66 FB $70 or make an offer

Best wishes,
Eric