Best place to sell Russian right now

marvinf

I have some high value Russian coins that I am considering selling in the next year. Anyone care to advance an (hopefully) educated recommendation where to sell (e.g. US, Europe)? And, more specifically, which auction houses might have better representation of deep pocketed Russian collectors (need at least two)?

Some examples - US: Heritage, Stacks-Bowers, CNG; Europe: Künker, Sincona, Gorny. I leave out Russian houses since the importation laws there leave me wondering what would happen if the coins didn't sell, and I wanted them shipped back to me in the US.

The coins are 19th and 20th century imperial roubles in (1826 NGC MS67 and 1910 PCGS PR66) and one RSFSR proof 1922 rouble in NGC PR66, all with wonderful eye appeal.

My own, albeit limited, research seems to indicate that Swiss locations do very well followed closely by German for Russian high value items. Heritage has a huge internet presence and good tools; SB is very aggressive right now trying to build a market presence.

One always has to weigh the commission schedules, both buyer and seller, and of course exchange rates for foreign auctions. Right now the pound is strong, the euro less so.

Anyway, it's a complicated question and of course depends on the individual coins. Trying to do "comps" as in the housing market is very difficult as no two coins are alike. That's why I thought it might be interesting to see what results from posing this question.

Of course one can always set high reserves to protect oneself, but auctioneers don't like that since they are in business to sell coins. One could try to "establish" a market price via ebay, with a listing not intended to sell but to get "best offers" and see how high it will go while advertising the coin, but my gut feeling is that ebay is not a good venue for high value items, kind a like a garage sale where people are always trying get a bargain.

So thanks for participating. I really will take a close look at all the responses.

SaorAlba

I would recommend either Kunker or Gorny Morsch - in Europe and attended by interested parties from the wild east. Want the best price? Sell where the deep pocketed Russians go.

worldcoinguy

I remember seeing those pieces years ago in auction and they are simply amazing. If it were my decision it would be between Kuenker and Heritage. Kuenker puts you in front of more Russian buyers, but Heritage will do more to market the pieces to a larger audience. Those are certainly "front cover" quality pieces for a Heritage auction catalog.

marvinf

Did you attend the Hesselgesser series of auctions (Goldbergs/Superior) in 2004? That's where both the 1826 and 1922 came from. I've traced the 1922 proof back to the Superior Heifetz sale where Hesselgesser probably bought it, but I've never been able to find the 1826 anywhere, and Hesselgesser told me he couldn't remember where/when he bought it. I've looked through several of the famous sales of the early 20th century with no luck. I'm guessing it was a Brand coin since several of the other Hesselgesser items came with that attribution.

The 1910 proof is pretty rare, but most of the Nicholas II proofs are pretty rare. Auction houses love to quote the rarity of the business strikes, but that has nothing to do with the rarity of the proofs however it does make for good catalog descriptions and create demand among bidders for proofs of the rare business strike dates. The dealer I bought it from gave me no information where he got it.

For the 1826, my job is to make sure the Auction company emphasizes how rare uncirculated wings-down roubles are as a type. They're as common as dirt in lower circulated conditions, and I love it when I see some ebay seller describing a heavily worn high-mintage date like the 1829, 1830 or 1831 as a "rare" coin. The 1826 wings down (as well as the 1826 wings up) is very scarce in any condition, and in uncirculated becomes rare. In superb gem, it's almost unseen as these coins were handled after striking very carelessly, and collectors at the time, who were mostly the wealthy and nobility, were just not interested in common business strikes. They were after proofs and older coins of the 18th century and before. As far as I know, there was nothing akin to the roll hoarders that we had in the US in the 1950s. In 1826, the middle class folk (what there was of them) were working too hard just to survive to be able to put away a rouble which represented a good deal of money at that time. And of course the great mass of citizenry, the serfs, had nothing. So my theory about this 1826 was that it was a mint sample of first year coinage or sent to the mint museum from where, through the upheavals of Russian history, it was "liberated" and either sold to a noble or wealthy collector at the point, later in the 19th century when it would have been an "old" coin, or sold by the Communists to raise hard capital at the beginning of the Soviet Union. It does not appear in the "duplicate" sales. Possibly it is the 1826 in the Tolstoi sale of 1913, but without pictures, it's hard to say.

So I just need two wealthy Russians who want to build the finest 19th century rouble collection ever to bid on this coin. Know anyone?

worldcoinguy

I can appreciate the rarity of the proof strikes and I know exactly what you mean about the conditional rarity of the 1826. I would imagine that the provenance of each piece should help underscore your story and appeal. I did not attend or bid in the Hesselgesser auctions in 2004 but I sure enjoyed admiring the catalog. I have a Hesselgesser taler from Paderborn in my collection but I found that a couple of years later. At the time, I was selling off all of my mid grade roubles from my personal collection at that time and I had saved the last ones for the 2004-2006 time period. I had some nicer dates and most were in ANACS or NGC holders. I recall trying to time some of the auctions to coincide with the Hesselgesser excitement. It would have been nice to hold onto the tougher dates such as 1902, 1903, 1880, and 1875, but the coin collecting passion was calling elsewhere.

I wish I could recall the name of a Russian gentleman who contacted me about the roubles. He represented international buyers at most major auctions. We met for coffee one day so he could see some of the pieces I had listed for auction at the time, and he was carrying some of the winning lots from that particular Hesselgesser auction. The only reason that I bring this up is that you might consider offering a "lesser" piece on eBay to see if it brings some of those higher end buyers out of the woodwork. Its a risky endeavor but it might bring the right middleman out for off-line conversations.

DShamis

I represent several high end collectors.

Chances are if you list these items in an auction - I will be going after them for one of my clients. As they collect the high end/high grade material.

Personally, I would use Kuenker. Gorny used to be the hotspot for Russian material, but his dominant presence has faded.
Sincona has auctioned off some high end Russian Material, but it was pedigreed to a crem de la crem collection.

Kuenker currently gets top dollar for Russian coins.
If ever interested selling direct - Feel free to contact me - I can provide all necessary references. Chances are if you list with an auction house I would either be the bidder or under-bidder.

Let me know if any help is needed.

Thanks,
Dmitry

DAVEatHLRC

We have had excellent success with Stack's-Bowers. You are right -- they are working very hard to build up their presence in Russian, and it is paying off.

They have captured the usual Russian & European bidders and they have the added advantage of their US bidders. It appears that they are developing some of their serious US collectors into Russian collectors -- at least of the high end Russian material. I have seen it first hand; sometimes the US collectors are outbidding the serious Russian guys lately.

if you do decide to contact them, I would recommend you speak with Greg Cohen, Vicken Yegparian and/or Kent Pontario. They seem to be the most aggressive in building that end of the business.

Hope this helps.