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My Conversations with Mike Gidwitz and the T206 Honus Wagner PSA 8 - Actual Conversation - sorry for
Stone193
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Hi everyone - thanx for your input.
This will be a bit long. When I got an email from him about some Topps art, I thought it would be nice to talk with him and get his insight on his approach and participation in the hobby. So here we go:
Around a year or two ago Mike said he would contact me about some Topps comic art he had and I never heard anything.
Well - fast forward - and I get an email from him about 19 pieces he had. Some were on his web - so I offered him a fair price for all of them and he was very happy.
I asked if we could talk and he graciously said sure. We talked for about 2 hours.
I found him to be interesting and very informative.
We talked about his perspective on why people sell - he said: "death, debt, divorce or get tired of it."
He shared that he's been screwed by a lot of AHs and he's currently working with the FBI and - of course - not at liberty to divulge information.
The "key" thing we discussed: the T206 Wagner
He was fully aware of the prior sales of the card - and as many know - he had tried before to get a really nice copy of the card and had fallen short many times before.
Also known - he's actually happy he didn't get the card originally since the purchase by Gretzky/McNall gave the card a pedigree and allure that it wouldn't have had before.
His main motive for the purchase? He wanted to be the first person to sell a million dollar card.
Side story: he called McNall's office and offered 1 million for the card and his administrative assistant by order of his boss blew him off. He was told afterwards that McNall regrets not taking the call since the assistant didn't take any info and they had no idea who had contacted him.
Something I didn't know - early on the card sale to Copeland by Mastro involved a 10K finder's fee to Greg Bussineau (that name on ebay - used to be Superior) according to Mike.
Mike said owning the card - even tho in a safety deposit box - was fun - and he enjoyed the attention and "validation" that goes with such a prestigious card.
I asked him about the "buzz" of the possibility of the card being altered at the time of purchase? He said he had heard it may have been "sheet cut" - but - at the time didn't know anything about the concerns Ray Alan had about "his" card being trimmed. He is aware of current claims by Mastro. He - at the time - trusted the authentication by PSA and moved on the card - based on that fact.
So, I asked him - why sell? He said when he saw Billy Crystal pay 200K for a Mantle glove? It was time to sell. And it sold for over a million bucks. He knew it had to "go to a million" before it would go for more.
When it comes to collecting - he feels "it should be fun first" - he used to think "his collection owned him - now - he owns it." I'm sure we can all relate to that.
Mike lives in downtown Chicago and is renovating his apartment and wants to start selling some of his stuff. He does own the 53T Mays original artwork - he said he paid a lot of money - and I'm sure that one would have to pay big bucks for that one!
He told me interesting stories of "well off" people coming to his house - look at his collection and "pocket" souvenirs. And he still continues to have problems with people - he bought a piece of original Madd cover art - paid $7500 and the guy still hasn't mailed it.
He said he's been "depressed." I asked Mike if he cashed the check? He said: "yes." I told him - he's too depressed to mail but not to cash the check? He just laughed.
He doesn't seem to have as much fun in the hobby as he used to and is thinking of selling off his collection. He said he did it for the fun - not the money - and the friendships that he forged over the years.
I'm not sure if anyone knows the guy? I don't. Other than I bought stuff from him and he sent it to me before he received my money - so I found him to be trusting. I can see some having "interesting" opinions of the guy. But, from my little world? It was a fun conversation/experience.
He sent me some pics of some of the items he's considering selling:
I will be in contact with Mike and as I think of things to ask - I'll share anything that's relevant. I told him I'm not writing a "book" but share with friends on a forum - hobby POVs and stories from others.
We talked about my collecting focus - I talked about my sheet music - he found that interesting.
In fact - I do have an interesting little tidbit.
I was talking with Tim Wiles the Director of Research at the HOF about his book.
I had given him about 7 names for a future article on variations - and verified them with copies of the sheet music.
In his book, he lists Harry Pen as being a variation. I asked if he had a pic - that I couldn't find his name anywhere?
He told me he would check - he did with the other 2 authors - was given the name of the source but they're no longer in contact with the guy and have no "concrete" verification?
Now one would think in writing a book - Verification 101 - would be - if someone gives you a name? Show me the photo of the sheet music. I didn't say anything to Tim - but I was a bit surprised.
Stay tuned. I'll add to this thread later in the weekend.
This will be a bit long. When I got an email from him about some Topps art, I thought it would be nice to talk with him and get his insight on his approach and participation in the hobby. So here we go:
Around a year or two ago Mike said he would contact me about some Topps comic art he had and I never heard anything.
Well - fast forward - and I get an email from him about 19 pieces he had. Some were on his web - so I offered him a fair price for all of them and he was very happy.
I asked if we could talk and he graciously said sure. We talked for about 2 hours.
I found him to be interesting and very informative.
We talked about his perspective on why people sell - he said: "death, debt, divorce or get tired of it."
He shared that he's been screwed by a lot of AHs and he's currently working with the FBI and - of course - not at liberty to divulge information.
The "key" thing we discussed: the T206 Wagner
He was fully aware of the prior sales of the card - and as many know - he had tried before to get a really nice copy of the card and had fallen short many times before.
Also known - he's actually happy he didn't get the card originally since the purchase by Gretzky/McNall gave the card a pedigree and allure that it wouldn't have had before.
His main motive for the purchase? He wanted to be the first person to sell a million dollar card.
Side story: he called McNall's office and offered 1 million for the card and his administrative assistant by order of his boss blew him off. He was told afterwards that McNall regrets not taking the call since the assistant didn't take any info and they had no idea who had contacted him.
Something I didn't know - early on the card sale to Copeland by Mastro involved a 10K finder's fee to Greg Bussineau (that name on ebay - used to be Superior) according to Mike.
Mike said owning the card - even tho in a safety deposit box - was fun - and he enjoyed the attention and "validation" that goes with such a prestigious card.
I asked him about the "buzz" of the possibility of the card being altered at the time of purchase? He said he had heard it may have been "sheet cut" - but - at the time didn't know anything about the concerns Ray Alan had about "his" card being trimmed. He is aware of current claims by Mastro. He - at the time - trusted the authentication by PSA and moved on the card - based on that fact.
So, I asked him - why sell? He said when he saw Billy Crystal pay 200K for a Mantle glove? It was time to sell. And it sold for over a million bucks. He knew it had to "go to a million" before it would go for more.
When it comes to collecting - he feels "it should be fun first" - he used to think "his collection owned him - now - he owns it." I'm sure we can all relate to that.
Mike lives in downtown Chicago and is renovating his apartment and wants to start selling some of his stuff. He does own the 53T Mays original artwork - he said he paid a lot of money - and I'm sure that one would have to pay big bucks for that one!
He told me interesting stories of "well off" people coming to his house - look at his collection and "pocket" souvenirs. And he still continues to have problems with people - he bought a piece of original Madd cover art - paid $7500 and the guy still hasn't mailed it.
He said he's been "depressed." I asked Mike if he cashed the check? He said: "yes." I told him - he's too depressed to mail but not to cash the check? He just laughed.
He doesn't seem to have as much fun in the hobby as he used to and is thinking of selling off his collection. He said he did it for the fun - not the money - and the friendships that he forged over the years.
I'm not sure if anyone knows the guy? I don't. Other than I bought stuff from him and he sent it to me before he received my money - so I found him to be trusting. I can see some having "interesting" opinions of the guy. But, from my little world? It was a fun conversation/experience.
He sent me some pics of some of the items he's considering selling:
I will be in contact with Mike and as I think of things to ask - I'll share anything that's relevant. I told him I'm not writing a "book" but share with friends on a forum - hobby POVs and stories from others.
We talked about my collecting focus - I talked about my sheet music - he found that interesting.
In fact - I do have an interesting little tidbit.
I was talking with Tim Wiles the Director of Research at the HOF about his book.
I had given him about 7 names for a future article on variations - and verified them with copies of the sheet music.
In his book, he lists Harry Pen as being a variation. I asked if he had a pic - that I couldn't find his name anywhere?
He told me he would check - he did with the other 2 authors - was given the name of the source but they're no longer in contact with the guy and have no "concrete" verification?
Now one would think in writing a book - Verification 101 - would be - if someone gives you a name? Show me the photo of the sheet music. I didn't say anything to Tim - but I was a bit surprised.
Stay tuned. I'll add to this thread later in the weekend.
Mike 0
Comments
fun read...great photos
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
<< <i>Mike ... in that last picture, is that a picture of Mike Gidwitz on a '53 card? >>
Thanx guys!
I think it might be Doug. I'll ask next time we communicate.
Here's a pic with Mike and his son.
And a few more scans:
Another side note:
I asked him if he ever read or participated in any sites like net54 or anything?
He said - "no." He doesn't like getting in the middle of any drama or anything.
Also, I got the idea he doesn't have a lot of confidence in any of the big sellers that he's dealt with over the years.
He said he was very trusting and people have taken advantage of that trust.
Another side note:
In trying to "thin the herd" - he's got a bunch of 80s Topps sheets and had a Chicago dealer come over and make an offer.
He said some of the sheets had Henderson RCs e.g. - he referenced the sheet had 2 - not sure if his card was double printed? Others with Ripken and Ryno RCs e.g. The guy offered him like 20 bucks per sheet. He thought that was very low.
He doesn't appreciate being "low balled."
I did tell him - that - based on what I remember Topps Dvorak 53T original pieces went for in auction - that 2500$ for the Repulski is a bit steep IMO. Further, the one he has isn't the one that was used in the Topps card. He thinks they used it and just changed the background. I wanted to ask Bruce about that?
I don't remember if he has the original Repulski?
He told me that he paid - now in his opinion - too much for some stuff.
In a humorous way - the tone of his message and what we both took from our conversation on collecting - if you have never paid too much - never got screwed - never got cheated - "you've never collected."
<< <i>Mike ... in that last picture, is that a picture of Mike Gidwitz on a '53 card? >>
Also, if you look two pictures up from that one, you'll notice the T206 "Wagner" next to the clock. That's also Mike G.
Steve
<< <i>Great read Mike...Thanks
<< <i>Mike ... in that last picture, is that a picture of Mike Gidwitz on a '53 card? >>
Also, if you look two pictures up from that one, you'll notice the T206 "Wagner" next to the clock. That's also Mike G.
Steve >>
Geez Steve, I missed that one! Good eye.
Wacky Pack Art History
<< <i>Gidwitz was also a big player in the explosion in prices of wacky packages original art about 15 years ago. Here's an interesting read on that:
Wacky Pack Art History >>
Thanx Paul!
I remember seeing a few items on his website.
Great stuff, Mike.
Bosox1976
<< <i>I wonder if that Eerie cover is an original Frazetta? >>
It's an Enrich Torres painting. Issue #35 from September 1971. (I had to do a little research.)
<< <i>
<< <i>I wonder if that Eerie cover is an original Frazetta? >>
It's an Enrich Torres painting. Issue #35 from September 1971. (I had to do a little research.) >>
Thanx for the research.
I sure didn't have a clue!
"This was the key card in the set when it came out in 1984.
Nobody may care anymore, except for Don Mattingly, but this was the key card to the set in 1984 and I believe that I paid $150 for it. It just goes to show you that even the guy who sold the Wagner card for over $1 million doesn't make money on everything. Mint condition."
I placed and order and due to technical difficulty a dialogue was opened over e-mail. I received a response today and attached to the email was a picture of a bright, smiling face of Mike.
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<< <i>After seeing the first post I visited his site and of course he has quite the collection. What fascinated me the most were his descriptions, here is the one on a 1984 Nestle Don Mattingly:
"This was the key card in the set when it came out in 1984.
Nobody may care anymore, except for Don Mattingly, but this was the key card to the set in 1984 and I believe that I paid $150 for it. It just goes to show you that even the guy who sold the Wagner card for over $1 million doesn't make money on everything. Mint condition."
I placed and order and due to technical difficulty a dialogue was opened over e-mail. I received a response today and attached to the email was a picture of a bright, smiling face of Mike.
I think you'll find him to be a good guy to do business with.
He doesn't mind "offers" as long as they're not insulting.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
<< <i>I think you'll find him to be a good guy to do business with. >>
He is a delight! I was looking at the 1978 Family Fun Centers Set he has listed, turns out the Ozzie has a crease just like the one that I own. He asks what I think would be a fair price, turns out he includes me in the description! haha
1978 Family Fun Centers San Diego Padres
Item Name: 1978 Family Fun Centers San Diego Padres with Ozzie Smith
Item Code: SCU223
Price: $75.00
Dimensions: Approximately 3 1/2X5 1/2
Framed Status: Unframed
Stars include - Ozzie Smith, Rollie Fingers, Mickey Lolich, Gaylord Perry, Gene Tenace, and Dave Winfield. The Ozzie Smith card is from his rookie year and has a small crease.
In conjunction with the Padres hosting of the 1978 All-Star game Family Fun Centers issued this set of cards covering the players, coaches, announcers, and even the owner, Ray Kroc. Ray Kroc, by the way, owned a little, tiny company called McDonald's. That's right! That McDonald's. Set is near mint to mint except for the Ozzie Smith card which has a small crease. I know of other collectors who have this set and it seems many of these sets all have problems with a small crease in the same place on the Ozzie Smith card. A big thank you goes out to my friend Jason Carter for his help and advice on what is a fair price to ask for the set because of the Ozzie Smith card.
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<< <i>
<< <i>I think you'll find him to be a good guy to do business with. >>
He is a delight! I was looking at the 1978 Family Fun Centers Set he has listed, turns out the Ozzie has a crease just like the one that I own. He asks what I think would be a fair price, turns out he includes me in the description! haha
1978 Family Fun Centers San Diego Padres
Item Name: 1978 Family Fun Centers San Diego Padres with Ozzie Smith
Item Code: SCU223
Price: $75.00
Dimensions: Approximately 3 1/2X5 1/2
Framed Status: Unframed
Stars include - Ozzie Smith, Rollie Fingers, Mickey Lolich, Gaylord Perry, Gene Tenace, and Dave Winfield. The Ozzie Smith card is from his rookie year and has a small crease.
In conjunction with the Padres hosting of the 1978 All-Star game Family Fun Centers issued this set of cards covering the players, coaches, announcers, and even the owner, Ray Kroc. Ray Kroc, by the way, owned a little, tiny company called McDonald's. That's right! That McDonald's. Set is near mint to mint except for the Ozzie Smith card which has a small crease. I know of other collectors who have this set and it seems many of these sets all have problems with a small crease in the same place on the Ozzie Smith card. A big thank you goes out to my friend Jason Carter for his help and advice on what is a fair price to ask for the set because of the Ozzie Smith card. >>
Very cool Jason.
Thanx for sharing.
What I also like about Mike?
He's a smart and successful businessman. But, there's some items that he knows that he overpaid - and not afraid to admit. So, if some items seem high? He may be just looking to break even. But, I'm sure he'd take a bit less if reasonable and he's willing to part with it. This is just my POV and conjecture - and biased due to the fact that I like the guy.
<< <i>I've dealt with Mike a few times over the years, buying some uncut sheets from him. I've found him to be great to deal with and very generous with his time, and always very candid. Don't think there is a more compehensive collection of uncut sheets, at least that I've seen, and would love to take him up on his offer of a tour next time I'm in Chicago. He's a pretty entertaining guy. >>
Thanx for sharing Anthony.
I agree - he has stacks of uncut sheets.
I would definitely go visit if I were to go up to Chicago.
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A very entertaining thread. Thanks for taking the time to share your experience with Mike Gidwitz, who sounds like a terrific guy to meet and talk with.
Donato
Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set
Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
<< <i>Hi Mike,
A very entertaining thread. Thanks for taking the time to share your experience with Mike Gidwitz, who sounds like a terrific guy to meet and talk with.
Donato >>
Thanx Donato. Your kind words are always appreciated.
Precious Paper
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