Although the pic is a bit blurry this is the nicest coin you've posted so far, but the crud on the reverse holds it back a bit. Not horrible, but it's there.
Looks like a VG+++. May squeeze out a F on a good day.
@ Elite CNC Routing & Woodworks on Facebook. Check out my work. Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
I agree with Wes on all counts - VG++, shot at F12, maybe gentle application of acetone on the rev will help, but frankly I don't find it unattractive just as it is, and yes it's the best coin you've posted so far.....and a tough date to find at this grade level
My first reaction was VG-10 as well. I think I see a gouge in the star near the eagle's head, if that's deep, it may not grade. Although on a 97-s, they may let that slide anyway.
The ANA standards regarding LIBERTY are: F-12: "All letters in LIBERTY are weak but visible." VG-8 "Three lettters in LIBERTY are clear."
Beyond this: 1. "visible" is not defined. The Randall P Holder site that I linked defines visible as any part of the letter showing, since he discusses tops of the letters for F-12.
Many persons posting here require all parts of the letter showing to define visible.
Both definitions are reasonable interpretations of "visible". They do unfortunately yield different grade labels. I don't know which definition is more popular among Barber collectors. I recall in the past, Jack Beymer discussed this, and he used complete letters (all parts), but others used partial letters.
2. The extensions for VG-10, F-15, etc. are not from the ANA, but are useful. Here is the grading section from David Lawrence's book. He has extensions like VG-10, but he does not directly discuss the definition of "visible" or "show". http://blog.davidlawrence.com/index.php/barber-halves-chapter-2-grading/ However, he may discuss it indirectly in his description for F-16:
<< <i>F 16 (FINE/VERY FINE) OBVERSE: LIBERTY is almost complete with only a slight weakness in the lower part of the BER. >>
This suggests to me that for "almost complete", he does not require all parts of the BER letters to show for F. But it's not completely clear.
I am hesitant to treat the coin in any way as I have not had very good luck with treating coins. Hence the Braided large cent.... But that coin is now a test coin as I dont't feel comfortable selling it now even though the guy likes how it looks in hand.
This used to be a lock VG10 grade. As a key date it might be pushed to a F12. It technically does grade F12, but it is as weak a F12 as could ever exist.
it is mine but I had the auction canceled so it will not be miss represented because of the info from this post. I based it originally on this: VF-20 LIBERTY will be complete but bottom of BER will be thin.
<< <i>I recall in the past, Jack Beymer discussed this, and he used complete letters (all parts), but others used partial letters. >>
The thing is: there is more to grading Barbers than just the LIBERTY and headband.
And Jack Beymer is slightly an outlier from the rest of the Barber guys.
Last summer's ANA show I took a PCGS VG10 CAC 1896-S 25c over to Jack's table. He tried to convince me that the coins true grade was G7! Whether his opinion was truthful, or he was just trying to rip the coin, I could not say.
But the coin was snapped up by the dealer across the aisle from Beymer for VG10 money.
<< <i>And Jack Beymer is slightly an outlier from the rest of the Barber guys. Last summer's ANA show I took a PCGS VG10 CAC 1896-S 25c over to Jack's table. He tried to convince me that the coins true grade was G7! Whether his opinion was truthful, or he was just trying to rip the coin, I could not say. >>
Not a big fan of Jack for several reasons, but I do not believe he was trying to rip the coin by being deceitful. He has always used some combination very old school and tough EAC type grading standards across all series, and frequently is at odds with the TPGs, as well as other dealers. However, his pricing is right in line with today's standards. So if you are buying a sharp full horn buff from him as a 'real' VF, you are likely paying XF money for it. That's all well and good, as long as it cuts both ways. Now if he is undergrading a key date like yours, and then pulls out the Greysheet to price it, that's a problem! Guys like that you don't discuss grade, just price.
Darrell... You amaze me... Always got your radar turned on...
You also have a photographic memory... Once you've seen a coin, you remember exactly where it was, it's grade, the TPG and the asking price. No wonder you're so good at what you do.
Mike Hayes ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
<< <i>I am in the F12 camp. I think it's much nicer than a VG 10 and no where as nice as an F15. >>
Funny how you can grade a coin one way - come back to it a few weeks later - and have a different opinion of it. I retract my original guess of F12 - its a VG 10 ...albeit a very nice VG 10 !!
Mike Hayes ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
lostincoins
Posts: 4,278 ✭
Comments
<< <i>f12 to f15 ? am I right? >>
Yes - you got it.
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
The crap on the reverse is not appealing to me however.
Looks like a VG+++. May squeeze out a F on a good day.
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
don't find it unattractive just as it is, and yes it's the best coin you've posted so far.....and a tough date to find at this grade level
F-12: "All letters in LIBERTY are weak but visible."
VG-8 "Three lettters in LIBERTY are clear."
Beyond this:
1. "visible" is not defined. The Randall P Holder site that I linked defines visible as any part of the letter showing,
since he discusses tops of the letters for F-12.
Many persons posting here require all parts of the letter showing to define visible.
Both definitions are reasonable interpretations of "visible". They do unfortunately yield different grade labels.
I don't know which definition is more popular among Barber collectors.
I recall in the past, Jack Beymer discussed this, and he used complete letters (all parts), but others used partial letters.
2. The extensions for VG-10, F-15, etc. are not from the ANA, but are useful.
Here is the grading section from David Lawrence's book. He has extensions like VG-10, but he does not directly discuss the definition of "visible" or "show".
http://blog.davidlawrence.com/index.php/barber-halves-chapter-2-grading/
However, he may discuss it indirectly in his description for F-16:
<< <i>F 16 (FINE/VERY FINE)
OBVERSE: LIBERTY is almost complete with only a slight weakness in the lower part of the BER. >>
This suggests to me that for "almost complete", he does not require all parts of the BER letters to show for F. But it's not completely clear.
Tyler
I am in the F12 camp. I think it's much nicer than a VG 10
and no where as nice as an F15.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
97-S
Hoard the keys.
<< <i>I recall in the past, Jack Beymer discussed this, and he used complete letters (all parts), but others used partial letters. >>
The thing is: there is more to grading Barbers than just the LIBERTY and headband.
And Jack Beymer is slightly an outlier from the rest of the Barber guys.
Last summer's ANA show I took a PCGS VG10 CAC 1896-S 25c over to Jack's table. He tried to convince me that the coins true grade was G7! Whether his opinion was truthful, or he was just trying to rip the coin, I could not say.
But the coin was snapped up by the dealer across the aisle from Beymer for VG10 money.
<< <i>And Jack Beymer is slightly an outlier from the rest of the Barber guys.
Last summer's ANA show I took a PCGS VG10 CAC 1896-S 25c over to Jack's table. He tried to convince me that the coins true grade was G7! Whether his opinion was truthful, or he was just trying to rip the coin, I could not say. >>
Not a big fan of Jack for several reasons, but I do not believe he was trying to rip the coin by being deceitful.
He has always used some combination very old school and tough EAC type grading standards across all series, and frequently is at odds
with the TPGs, as well as other dealers. However, his pricing is right in line with today's standards. So if you are buying a sharp full horn buff
from him as a 'real' VF, you are likely paying XF money for it. That's all well and good, as long as it cuts both ways. Now if he is undergrading a key date like yours, and then pulls out the Greysheet to price it, that's a problem! Guys like that you don't discuss grade, just price.
<< <i>VG10, with a shot at F12. Absolutely no higher than that.
Darrell... You amaze me... Always got your radar turned on...
You also have a photographic memory... Once you've seen a
coin, you remember exactly where it was, it's grade, the TPG
and the asking price. No wonder you're so good at what you do.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
<< <i>I am in the F12 camp. I think it's much nicer than a VG 10
and no where as nice as an F15. >>
Funny how you can grade a coin one way - come back to it a few weeks later -
and have a different opinion of it. I retract my original guess of F12 - its a VG 10
...albeit a very nice VG 10 !!
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases