Ebay shill bidding

I had an interchange with a major ebay seller who said that if you want to really make money there you need to have shill bidders. I see the pattern with this major seller, all bids are private and the raw material regularly goes over real market pricing. Cautiously done, shill bidding will not be detected and even if reported the ebay management may not do anything in the way of an investigation especially if they are making lots of money from the seller. What's in it for them? And as usual whistleblowing is a losing proposition, what is in it for me to report it? It would just look like I am trying to undermine my competition which is not true at all, I figure that an honest playing field is vital for all concerned.
So the question is can ebay really detect cautious and careful shill bidding, and if they do will they take action?
So the question is can ebay really detect cautious and careful shill bidding, and if they do will they take action?
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I can remember only one time where Ebay shut down a rampant employer of shill bidding - our old friend "neyronix". He was so egregious and had so many complaints I think they couldn't just ignore him...
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
They have created a situation where buying on eBay is perhaps the most regulated (not as in law) selling environment on the net. All designed around getting shoppers in, they could give a poop about sellers as they are a dime a dozen.
I say all those that have top-tier status enjoy it while it lasts, as when it comes to selling raw coins, you will inevitably lose it because of unsophisticated buyers.
Speculation and greed are part of mankind, have been as long as history can recall, and will likely continue long into the future.
I think that info is not quite correct; they may not have been prosecuted for shill bidding. Rather, they appear to have been prosecuted for forgery; the items they were selling were forged paintings. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake:_Forgery,_Lies,_&_eBay)
I'm sure they probably used some shilling to pump the price, but I suspect shilling is not what they were prosecuted on.)
I'm not sure that shilling as it applies to ebay would be readily prosecutable, or whether anyone would even be interested in pushing it. But... I'm certainly no expert in these matters. Regardless, your premise is correct... if prosecution were to take place then ebay might then start caring about the practice.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
What's in it for them? >>
Once ebay has been put on documented notice, the clock starts on their legal and financial liability should the person reporting the violation seeking court support for damages. Shill bidding is against ebay policy because it is illegal.
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Shill bidding, in one form or another is everywhere. You may benefit from it more than you think. It probably props up the coin market to a considerable degree. Embrace it.
<< <i>I figure that an honest playing field is vital for all concerned. >>
...like steroids and Major Leauge Baseball.
Erik
<< <i>I wouldn't know how to legally put them on notice. >>
The moment you reported the suspected shill bidding electronically you put ebay on notice. Their reply or acknowledgement is further digital evidence.
ZeroHedge makes debut at White House press corps briefing
<< <i>See sig >>
Posting that helped keep the YAIEP at the top of the list.
Just sayin'...
In reality, the seller is placing a reserve on his material. He could easily do that (place a reserve), or even a BIN.
If he does not want to sell his stuff at below market, he can do reserve or BIN. Shill bidding is just a snarky way of doing the same thing. If the $$ too high, he will not sell, so have to reduce his shill bidding if he wants to sell.
At the end of the day, the market rules.
<< <i> >>
What's in it for them? >>
Once ebay has been put on documented notice, the clock starts on their legal and financial liability should the person reporting the violation seeking court support for damages. Shill bidding is against ebay policy because it is illegal. >>
Shill bidding is against ebay policy because it is against ebay policy. The Uniform Commercial Code allows consignors to place bids as DEFAULT in all 50 states. Only if an auction is
advertised as "absolute auction" (no reserves, no minimums) are the consignors not permitted to bid.
<< <i>I look at it this way.
In reality, the seller is placing a reserve on his material. He could easily do that (place a reserve), or even a BIN.
If he does not want to sell his stuff at below market, he can do reserve or BIN. Shill bidding is just a snarky way of doing the same thing. If the $$ too high, he will not sell, so have to reduce his shill bidding if he wants to sell.
At the end of the day, the market rules. >>
Ebay once allowed sellers to place ONE BID on their items, so things would not sell for below market or at a loss ( an auction company is supposed to look after the interests of the SELLER by law) But ebay had to ban that practice when they started charging a extra fee to have a reserve.
The high profile "shill Bidding art" case was actually about selling fake art for hundreds of thousands of dollars, and the sellers created fake accounts named after famous art collectors to make it seem that "if They are bidding on it, it must be real"
The equivalent here would be fake PCGS slabs that ebay accounts DAVIDHALL and TOMDELORY and QDBOWERS were furiously bidding for...but the underlying crime is selling counterfeits, not shill bidding.
<< <i>The eBay seller neyronix was suspected of shill bidding for months or years on this board before eBay reputedly shut them down. >>
I am sure he did. Who else would put an NGC AU58 1854-D $3 gold up for auction
with a start price of 99 cents? It did get up over $50,000.
I also bought common date slabbed gold from him at what I felt were
very competitive prices. He moved a lot of coins.
______ ___ ______ ____ ______________ (imagine these thoughts)
Shill bidding is very different than placing a reserve, because the shill "bids" create the appearance that the item is more desirable through perceived high bidder interest. When I see reserves placed, many times I notice less bidding activity, possibly due to the perception that there is no opprtunity for a great deal to be had.
Like others have said, even when sniping, the shill bids can influence what you might place as your maximum bid.....
......I collect old stuff......
I do find it somewhat hypocritical for auctioneers to infer that shilling is mostly legal and not a big deal... yet these same guys go ballistic if they find out that some bidders were "bid rigging" ("I won't bid on the piece you want if you don't bid on mine").
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
This is a link to an article aboutshill bidding on ebay and their new rules.
I set my max bid and if it goes over oh well!