Anyone ever hear of a 'mechanical error' on a variety?

NotSure

I had bid in Heritage's auction on this PCGS 1963 MS66 Type B, 2 weeks ago. Now, I know I couldn't find all the PUP's, due to the lighting during imaging, and had a little doubt as to the coin being the actual variety or not. I'm very good with the Type B/C's, but, as I said, the lighting is just awful. After hearing from Tom, and getting his take, and then Harvey's opinion to Tom stating this coin is NOT the variety, I called Heritage to see what the return process would be IF it were not the variety they put up for auction. Now, I find it difficult to believe that a non variety could wind up in a variety holder. Well, instead of shipping the coin to me, after payment, they pulled the coin to look at it.

Low and behold, it is NOT a Type B, Heritage immediately refunded my money, so THEY could take care of it, instead of me, as it is now deemed a 'mechanical error'. Not having had a 'mechanical error', I don't know how it goes, what the refund policy is, but they took the helm for me. With their imaging not the greatest, I'm guessing if the imaging was better, I'm sure this coin would have been reported and removed. Where this could happen/could HAVE happened to anyone (apparently, the submittor has submitted other varieties which have sold, and there are going to be measures taken to establish whether the others he submitted are actually the variety or not). I will say they helped me out, as I don't know what could have happened if I had to deal with our hosts on a 'mechanical error'. It's not a variety where you need a loupe to see, it's a 'naked eye' variety, so how could this happen??

I'm puzzled as to how a coin, that was submitted for variety attribution, could be designated the variety, when it obviously wasn't. Anyone ever have this happen before, or have any explanation as to how a non-variety coin, that attribution was paid for, could wind up in a designated variety holder? I'm guessing there's a Type B in a 66 holder that isn't attributed, floating around somewhere. Thanks....

illini420

I've seen several coins with misattributed varieties by PCGS and the other grading companies too. I wouldn't exactly call them "mechanical errors" as they seem to just be "errors" instead.

For many varieties, there are several PUPs (pick up points) to look for and for it to really be the variety all of the PUPs must be present. But some of those PUPs can also be found on non-variety coins. It seems that sometimes when a submitter sees a few of the PUPs (but not all), they think they have the variety and send it in for attribution... also seems that sometimes the grading company makes the same mistake.

Cameonut

I've never had this problem with our hosts, but currently have two modern proof varieties that are incorrectly attributed across the street. One of these days, I'll return them for review.

One thing I have learned is that auction houses (and many other sellers for that matter) don't take the time to cross reference varieties - they rely on the TPG's to get it right.

My guess is that the coin the OP posted will be sent to our hosts for review by Heritage. If the attribution is incorrect I'm pretty certain that PCGS will make it right.

Unknown

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1tommy

I have had coins they refer to as mechinical error, whereas they did NOT give me the Variety as they should of, so the coin goes back and gets a new label. I and others saw that coin and all of us agreed NO way was it a Type B. I also have to wonder how a coin that you HAVE to pay an extra 24 bucks to get Verified can slip by the Variety Expert. I sure hope pcgs can look into what other coins were submitted at that time and figure if there are more of these out there. I buy Varieties all the time and this just proves Knowledge is Power and even when you buy one already slabbed you better know what it is suppose to be. I am glad that they refunded your money and that they seem to be proactive about this. Enjoy

DennisH

"Stuff" happens. Always has and always will.
Bravo to Heritage for taking care of the problem and saving you the hassle.

MedalCollector

Those pictures are sufficient for attributing this variety, or non-variety in this case. I'm surprised it wasn't pulled before the auction ended.

MsMorrisine

Is one possibility here an incorrectly entered coin number?

19Lyds has or had a pres. bucks holdered with the wrong president on the label. So, worse mistakes have been made.

1tommy

If you still have the certificate number you can do a search either up or down from that number and WOW someone better do some checking as the first number below this one shows a 1961 Type B graded MS66 and its a 1250 dollar coin lets do one more down and see.......27893141.......oh oh so far down to certificate number 27893139 and there all Type B MS66 thats amazing whoever looks like he made alot of top pops.........back to checking again.......Enjoy

MsMorrisine

Ruh roh

Submit a couple rolls of type b's that are only type b on the first and last 3 coins.

1tommy

Ok I have traced them to this first number 27892982 all the way up to the original number of 27893141 were looking at over 140 Type B's of all different grades and different years.............THIS is NOt good..............Ken make sure you call pcgs and tell them these numbers are all Type B and if 1 is wrong the chances are there maybe many more out there and in members sets?

19Lyds

That's not a "mechanical" but a "misattribution. As such, its covered under PCGS grade/attribution guarantee.

However, with such a low resale value on a 1963 Washington MS66 Type B, it would hardly be worth the effort to take advantage of the guarantee.

19Lyds

<< <i>If the attribution is incorrect, I'm pretty certain that PCGS will make it right. >>

IF?

No doubt about it, its not a Type B Reverse.

The thing is, the $24 attribution fee plus $8 handling fee plus return shipping and handling, make this thing a garbage can in the room as the reimbursed amount would cover anything.

Since Tommy was diligent enough to search the cert database, I strongly expect that this coin was in a "bulk submission" which accounts for the fact that it's misattributed and more than likely overgraded.

Misattribution in bulk submissions is way more possible than standard grading submissions.

Damn, that hit on George's neck and the chatter on the reverse makes you wonder about the MS66. I'd bet that if the coin were put up on the forums as a Guess the Grade that folks would be hesitant to even give in an MS65.

1tommy

NotSure

Just spoke to Heritage. It's apparently been checked, marked 'mechanical error', and they are sending it to PCGS. They're going to let me know when PCGS either confirms it is NOT the B, or it is. I'm good with this variety, no question, and it IS rather easy to tell, with the right monitor. I looked at it on another monitor (apparently my laptop monitor settings need tweaking), but even with the poor lighting, could see it wasn't...my laptop originally, I couldn't clearly see enough of the wingtip, but my monitor made it appear chances were, it was (the lighting really affected that part), but on the other monitor (after the item ended), it was apparent that it was not.

I am wondering why, though, this wasn't brought up to them, and have them pull it. Enough members here with Type B called it immediately, yet the item ran till the end. If I could have clearly seen it wasn't the variety originally, I would have informed them instead of placing a bid.

NotSure

They haven't hit the pop reports yet......and the top pops remain the same.

MsMorrisine

No type b's here and on a smart phone. The ES in STATES was the giveaway for me

I hope this one is an anomly in the grading, otherwise keep that list of cert numbers handy.

1tommy

<< <i>They haven't hit the pop reports yet......and the top pops remain the same. >>

I can say by checking out another coin that was sold to another member IT IS the Type B so it looks like there is only 1 coin at this point, edited to not cause any trouble ....................

MsMorrisine

DW would love it if all 140 were made out to be suspect instead of the only one known.

Been there, upset that.

Tread lightly.

howards

Misattributions of shield nickel varieties in TPG holders are a common occurrence.

NotSure

Anomaly or not, I'd still like my '63 'B' in MS66!!! lol

edited for....the cert # for the '61 is 27893141....cert for the '63 is 27893142......hmmmmmm

keyman64

Misattribution, not a mechanical error IMO.

NotSure

'Mechanical Error' is what Heritage is calling it, and dealing with it as such (I'm sure if they go right to PCGS, the technical phrase may change, but that's what Heritage feels it will be with our hosts. I never mentioned what type of error it was, hence my bringing it here. But, as Tom has brought up, the potential for a large amount of these in 'misattributed' variety holders could be rather high. I never even noticed the differences in the cert #'s, or, rather, lack of difference.

19Lyds

<< <i>'Mechanical Error' is what Heritage is calling it, and dealing with it as such (I'm sure if they go right to PCGS, the technical phrase may change, but that's what Heritage feels it will be with our hosts. I never mentioned what type of error it was, hence my bringing it here. But, as Tom has brought up, the potential for a large amount of these in 'misattributed' variety holders could be rather high. I never even noticed the differences in the cert #'s, or, rather, lack of difference. >>

Fine. Go with what Heritage is calling it.

Just remember, they sell them, they don't attribute (as evidenced by the coin in the listing) or even grade them.

oldsubguru

Mis-attributions in error and variety coins, while not common do have a tendency to pop-up in all encapsulated coins. One that I detected recently was a Kennedy half slab as a rotated die. It was actually a "magicians coin" that was well done. However, the seam was still visible under low magnification. I have also seen in hand a encapsulated coin labeled "strong die clash" that was actually a "sandwich job". I believe that both those encapsulation errors have been corrected by the TPG's that made the mistake.