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Methodology of an eBay scammer; Also, should I be concerned?
FadeToBlack
Posts: 7,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
So... in the process of getting a refund from eBay for an item I purchased, here's the link;
1885-CC
Screenshots, just for posterity's sake;
I made a couple offers, the first at $378, and gradually went up from there to $420, where they agreed. Net cost to me of $432. What follows below is a summary of messages and offers....
Initial offer
Your offer price: $378.00
Your terms: $400 is the bid price (Price most dealers sell at) for an '85-CC in VF. Will pay within 12 hours of accepted offer.
Offer expires: Oct-17-13 23:38:06 PDT
View Item | Go to My eBay
Seller: els040486 [contact seller]
First counter
Offer price: $450.00
Buy It Now price:
$550.00Buy It Now
Offer expires: Oct-17-13 23:55:44 PDT
Seller Terms: Coin value reference guide I use lists coin between $445 and $460.
Seller: els040486 [contact seller]
My counter - Accepted offer
Your Counteroffer: $420.00
Buy It Now price:
$550.00Buy It Now
Quantity: 1
Your terms: I'll meet you more than halfway.
Offer expires: Oct-18-13 00:02:58 PDT
Seller: els040486 [contact seller]
Fast forward to the 21st, I get my shipping info;
Shipped on Oct-21-13
USPS Priority Mail Flat Rate Envelope
Estimated delivery: Tue. Oct. 22 - Thu. Oct. 24
Tracking number: 94062096999388847xxxxx
All seems well, right? 18th was a Friday, figured they were busy and didn't get around to sending it out until Monday the 21st... Well... Tracking Info never advances past this, which means it was never dropped off at the PO as far as I can tell.
On the 23rd, I inquire as to why the tracking hasn't been updated yet, and what follows is a brief back and forth;
Dear els040486,
Hey, did you ship this yet? Nothing comes up when I hit the tracking. Just inquiring. Thanks!
Dear XXXX,
Hello. Your package was shipped on 10/21. I will call the post office to find out the status and ask why the tracking information is not coming up on the website.
Jennifer
- els040486
Dear els040486,
Much obliged, Jennifer. I was really looking forward to filling this hole in my set, so I'll be tremendously disappointed if it has gone poof. Did you keep the receipt? You can double check the tracking number on there... of course if you used eBays shipping system, that wouldn't apply.
Dear XXXX,
I DID use the EBAY postage system thru the USPS. It loaded the tracking information into the system and printed the shipping label. I have all the receipts and the package was insured. I will talk to the post office people and get some answers. Don't lose hope.
Jennifer
- els040486
Dear els040486,
I've had post office screwups before, I'm not THAT worried about it... I just checked on their website, looks like it only shows the tracking info being created and never received at the PO... which worries me a bit because I've never seen that before. Hopefully everything works out, though, I once had a package go missing for 2 months before it turned up.
Dear XXXX,
I've had packages sent to me that have shown up at my door and never appeared on the tracking info. Back when you had to pay for tracking info, I've had packages not appear in the system and I got in their face about it. Paid for a service I didn't get. I don't send ANYTHING anymore without full value insurance on it. Without it, if they mess up, your stuck. I shipped an antique vase one time and they crushed the box. Without the insurance, $1500 down the drain. I was still upset about the vase being destroyed though.
- els040486
The next day;
Dear els040486,
Any update?
Dear XXXX,
I am waiting for a callback with answers as to why your package is not showing up in tracking and where the package is. I will call them back by afternoon if I don't hear from them first, then possibly a in-person visit. I will keep you informed to information as I get it. In case they ask, is your shipping address a residential or business address?
Jennifer
- els040486
Now, this made me raise an eyebrow. I didn't respond. Two days later (Saturday the 26th), I send this email;
Dear els040486,
At this point, if you have not heard anything from the post office, I would like a refund. Mail came today, still no coin.
After no response for greater than 36 hours (Note the seller had responded within an hour or so to all prior messages);
Dear els040486,
Given your lack of a response to my request for a refund, and since you apparently never shipped the coin, merely printed out the tracking info, I have filed a case against you for a refund. I will drop the case if the coin shows up or you refund me post-haste. If you really insured it, go claim the insurance and give me my money back.
Dear XXXX,
I apologize. I have not been on EBAY since Friday and I did not see your refund request until just now. I have made 2 calls to the post office and both times they have told me they are trying to trace it. I will honor your wish and instruct Paypal to refund your money. Please let me know when then coin shows up. The package is set up for signature delivery, so if it is refused, it will be sent back to me. I'm sorry for the inconvenience.
- els040486
Dear els040486,
You do seem honest, I just need to protect myself, it's a lot of money at stake here. If it shows up, I will pay for it. I'll just send the money directly through paypal. I sincerely hope it shows, it looks like it would fit in quite well with the rest of my set. Thanks for your understanding, and I apologize if I've made things difficult for you.
Dear XXXX,
I completely understand your position. The clerk at the Plainfield Illinois post office mentioned offhand that they sometimes get unreadable barcodes on shipping labels when customers print them on home printers and it makes it difficult to scan packages. I would think that they would enter the tracking number manually, but that 's me. I really hope that it finds its way to you. You sound like you have quite a good coin collection.
- els040486
Another eyebrow goes up. This individual has my name, address, and knows that I like coins. So I attempt to diffuse/deflect by telling the truth about my collection;
Dear els040486,
It's alright, not great... this would be the single most expensive coin in the collection excepting one I stumbled upon for real cheap at my coin dealer. Certainly the most I've ever spent on a coin to keep for myself. My major concern is that every time I have gotten a package, its been scanned or keyed in as "accepted" at the post office and this never got that far, according to the tracking. At any rate, if you do come back into possession of it because it couldn't be delivered for whatever reason, let me know and we can work something out for it.
As of today, I still have not been refunded. So I went to the PO's website and filed an inquiry, I got this response within a few hours (Impressive response time!);
Dear XXXX,
You are correct in believing that this person has never mailed the item. The electronic information shows that he printed a label. He HAS NOT given this package to a post office for delivery. Let me know if you need more help. I am sure that we could turn him over to the postal inspectors if he doens't ship this package or return your money. There is no one in the postal system looking for or working on this item for him.
-Lynn XXXX
Contacted eBay, case was immediately escalated. Waiting on a refund now. However, there is some wannabe scammer out there that knows I have the means and the desire to purchase high-end coins, knows my address, name, etc. Were they just phishing for addresses to shop around to thieves? Has my insatiable lust for good deals just created a huge potential liability for myself? Sometimes, I'm really too nice for my own good. Time for a PO Box!
1885-CC
Screenshots, just for posterity's sake;
I made a couple offers, the first at $378, and gradually went up from there to $420, where they agreed. Net cost to me of $432. What follows below is a summary of messages and offers....
Initial offer
Your offer price: $378.00
Your terms: $400 is the bid price (Price most dealers sell at) for an '85-CC in VF. Will pay within 12 hours of accepted offer.
Offer expires: Oct-17-13 23:38:06 PDT
View Item | Go to My eBay
Seller: els040486 [contact seller]
First counter
Offer price: $450.00
Buy It Now price:
$550.00Buy It Now
Offer expires: Oct-17-13 23:55:44 PDT
Seller Terms: Coin value reference guide I use lists coin between $445 and $460.
Seller: els040486 [contact seller]
My counter - Accepted offer
Your Counteroffer: $420.00
Buy It Now price:
$550.00Buy It Now
Quantity: 1
Your terms: I'll meet you more than halfway.
Offer expires: Oct-18-13 00:02:58 PDT
Seller: els040486 [contact seller]
Fast forward to the 21st, I get my shipping info;
Shipped on Oct-21-13
USPS Priority Mail Flat Rate Envelope
Estimated delivery: Tue. Oct. 22 - Thu. Oct. 24
Tracking number: 94062096999388847xxxxx
All seems well, right? 18th was a Friday, figured they were busy and didn't get around to sending it out until Monday the 21st... Well... Tracking Info never advances past this, which means it was never dropped off at the PO as far as I can tell.
On the 23rd, I inquire as to why the tracking hasn't been updated yet, and what follows is a brief back and forth;
Dear els040486,
Hey, did you ship this yet? Nothing comes up when I hit the tracking. Just inquiring. Thanks!
Dear XXXX,
Hello. Your package was shipped on 10/21. I will call the post office to find out the status and ask why the tracking information is not coming up on the website.
Jennifer
- els040486
Dear els040486,
Much obliged, Jennifer. I was really looking forward to filling this hole in my set, so I'll be tremendously disappointed if it has gone poof. Did you keep the receipt? You can double check the tracking number on there... of course if you used eBays shipping system, that wouldn't apply.
Dear XXXX,
I DID use the EBAY postage system thru the USPS. It loaded the tracking information into the system and printed the shipping label. I have all the receipts and the package was insured. I will talk to the post office people and get some answers. Don't lose hope.
Jennifer
- els040486
Dear els040486,
I've had post office screwups before, I'm not THAT worried about it... I just checked on their website, looks like it only shows the tracking info being created and never received at the PO... which worries me a bit because I've never seen that before. Hopefully everything works out, though, I once had a package go missing for 2 months before it turned up.
Dear XXXX,
I've had packages sent to me that have shown up at my door and never appeared on the tracking info. Back when you had to pay for tracking info, I've had packages not appear in the system and I got in their face about it. Paid for a service I didn't get. I don't send ANYTHING anymore without full value insurance on it. Without it, if they mess up, your stuck. I shipped an antique vase one time and they crushed the box. Without the insurance, $1500 down the drain. I was still upset about the vase being destroyed though.
- els040486
The next day;
Dear els040486,
Any update?
Dear XXXX,
I am waiting for a callback with answers as to why your package is not showing up in tracking and where the package is. I will call them back by afternoon if I don't hear from them first, then possibly a in-person visit. I will keep you informed to information as I get it. In case they ask, is your shipping address a residential or business address?
Jennifer
- els040486
Now, this made me raise an eyebrow. I didn't respond. Two days later (Saturday the 26th), I send this email;
Dear els040486,
At this point, if you have not heard anything from the post office, I would like a refund. Mail came today, still no coin.
After no response for greater than 36 hours (Note the seller had responded within an hour or so to all prior messages);
Dear els040486,
Given your lack of a response to my request for a refund, and since you apparently never shipped the coin, merely printed out the tracking info, I have filed a case against you for a refund. I will drop the case if the coin shows up or you refund me post-haste. If you really insured it, go claim the insurance and give me my money back.
Dear XXXX,
I apologize. I have not been on EBAY since Friday and I did not see your refund request until just now. I have made 2 calls to the post office and both times they have told me they are trying to trace it. I will honor your wish and instruct Paypal to refund your money. Please let me know when then coin shows up. The package is set up for signature delivery, so if it is refused, it will be sent back to me. I'm sorry for the inconvenience.
- els040486
Dear els040486,
You do seem honest, I just need to protect myself, it's a lot of money at stake here. If it shows up, I will pay for it. I'll just send the money directly through paypal. I sincerely hope it shows, it looks like it would fit in quite well with the rest of my set. Thanks for your understanding, and I apologize if I've made things difficult for you.
Dear XXXX,
I completely understand your position. The clerk at the Plainfield Illinois post office mentioned offhand that they sometimes get unreadable barcodes on shipping labels when customers print them on home printers and it makes it difficult to scan packages. I would think that they would enter the tracking number manually, but that 's me. I really hope that it finds its way to you. You sound like you have quite a good coin collection.
- els040486
Another eyebrow goes up. This individual has my name, address, and knows that I like coins. So I attempt to diffuse/deflect by telling the truth about my collection;
Dear els040486,
It's alright, not great... this would be the single most expensive coin in the collection excepting one I stumbled upon for real cheap at my coin dealer. Certainly the most I've ever spent on a coin to keep for myself. My major concern is that every time I have gotten a package, its been scanned or keyed in as "accepted" at the post office and this never got that far, according to the tracking. At any rate, if you do come back into possession of it because it couldn't be delivered for whatever reason, let me know and we can work something out for it.
As of today, I still have not been refunded. So I went to the PO's website and filed an inquiry, I got this response within a few hours (Impressive response time!);
Dear XXXX,
You are correct in believing that this person has never mailed the item. The electronic information shows that he printed a label. He HAS NOT given this package to a post office for delivery. Let me know if you need more help. I am sure that we could turn him over to the postal inspectors if he doens't ship this package or return your money. There is no one in the postal system looking for or working on this item for him.
-Lynn XXXX
Contacted eBay, case was immediately escalated. Waiting on a refund now. However, there is some wannabe scammer out there that knows I have the means and the desire to purchase high-end coins, knows my address, name, etc. Were they just phishing for addresses to shop around to thieves? Has my insatiable lust for good deals just created a huge potential liability for myself? Sometimes, I'm really too nice for my own good. Time for a PO Box!
0
Comments
I will say that is the nicest Fine 85 cc I have ever seen!
<< <i>I will say that is the nicest Fine 85 cc I have ever seen! >>
Probably why he offered VF money for it. Hope he's not a dealer.
<< <i>It sounds like the postal inspectors are a lot more vigilant than when I have dealt with them on rip-offs. Another thought is that fraudters have to go through a lot of trouble to get their temporary funds, before things go downhill there for them. >>
Ebay does not hold the funds for all new sellers, only those that are new to ebay. I know the cutoff for the hold is sometime after 2007. Your seller was established in 2005.
<< <i>Time for a PO Box! >>
Understatement of the week!
<< <i>
<< <i>I will say that is the nicest Fine 85 cc I have ever seen! >>
Probably why he offered VF money for it. Hope he's not a dealer.
I'm blown away that this was even purchased by a regular on here.
and they are private listings on a seller who hasn't sold in over 4 years.
private listings
4+ year gap in selling
used to sell "retired" road signs
sells a circulated coin using an uncirculated picture.
yes, be so concerned you don't bother with the BIN
now?
eBay will make you whole. You should have been more careful by not even trying.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I will say that is the nicest Fine 85 cc I have ever seen! >>
Probably why he offered VF money for it. Hope he's not a dealer.
I'm blown away that this was even purchased by a regular on here.
and they are private listings on a seller who hasn't sold in over 4 years. >>
+1
all the signs of a hacked/scam account
.
Interesting also that current feedback is from people with 1 to 3 transactions!! Also, persons name is Jennifer and her avatar is a football player. Big Bad Flag. But that said, I've also bought fairly expensive items from people with little to no feedback.
rodorr
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
<< <i>Someone having your name and address is not a compromise of personal information. It is readily available publicly. All ebay sellers have the name and address of everyone they sold to. It's needed to deliver the purchase. >>
you need a drop box, too.
I would very much use caution until you have a resolution about assuming and branding the person a scammer until you are 100 % certain for sure that is the case , to do so on a public forum is very unwise. Get your refund or coin and resolve the issue in private with the seller and ebay. The very short time frame is a reason to suggest refraining from any conclusion as none can be made for certain.
As far as information provided to the seller, that's a big question mark. These days you can't be too careful, sad but a reality.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
No idea if you should be concerned or not, which I suppose is equivalent to saying "Yes, you should be concerned."
Coin Rarities Online
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Seller just refunded me in full. >>