Centering vs. grade

doog71

Last night I won a PSA 5 1969 Topps Johnny Bench. From the scan it looks beautifully centered. I was budgeting for a 7 or so for this card, but the best centered example I found was the 5.

I know this isn't a new thought here, but for vintage I'd always rather have for my personal collection a dead centered PSA 5 or 6 than 60/40 or worse PSA 7 or 8.

Does anyone else think that value-wise in the future people will gravitate towards dead-centered mid-grade than say a PSA 8 that's not as centered? Or does that already happen routinely?

I'm only starting to collect vintage cards to keep long term...I'd love hear any thoughts centering fanatics might have.

Dboneesq

I think different people look for different aspects in a card. I agree with you though, I like a centered "5" over an badly centered "7".

As someone once said on these boards, "I've never seen an off centered painting hanging in the Louvre". (And if there are such paintings, no need to post them here!~)

TheMick6

I love well centered vintage cards! I am currently working on a 6 to 6.5 1953 set an loving it. I can get a beauty of a card over 60 years old for a fraction of the 7 to 8 grade. I think most here put a premium on the eye appeal of a card an nothing helps the look of a card like dead on centering. I don't think they will ever outshine the higher grade stuff though.

mattinglymint23

Centering first.
I gotta believe that a well centered 50' or 60's set in 5 or 6 would sell a lot faster than 7's and 8's with near the limit centering.

dytch2220

<< <i>I think different people look for different aspects in a card. I agree with you though, I like a centered "5" over an badly centered "7".

As someone once said on these boards, "I've never seen an off centered painting hanging in the Louvre". (And if there are such paintings, no need to post them here!~) >>



I think this one is more of a miscut...



Oh, wait you said NOT to post. Oops!

All joking aside, I rather agree that centering is pretty important to the appeal of a card for me. Although I've made other threads here about centering that may have given the impression I'm soft on the issue, the opposite is true. Those threads were to help educate forum members on how PSA grades and to point out that many folks were pretty far off on how centering would impact PSA grading. So, to the OP: It sounds like you're gravitating towards the well centered 5. If you're not dead set on registry competition, then buy the card you like, forget about the grade. I can't really speak to the value of vintage cards as I don't own any, yet...

MrNearMint

I'm gonna go against the grain on this one, I'd rather have an okay centered card that's of a higher grade then a well centered lower grade.
I actually prefer nice, clean, colorful surfaces over centering.

cardbender

Since centering is purely a production flaw and out of a collector's control,
I'd prefer a sharper cornered card with slight off-centering, than a 50/50 card with much more corner wear.
To me sharper corners means the card was handled less or with more care.
Not mentioned nearly enough is the card's focus. These are pictures after all. Shouldn't image quality
be the first component to a high grade card?

I can't tell you how many 8's and 9's I've seen over the years with nearly double vision imagery.
Apparently that's not a main part of the criteria needed to receive a high grade from TPG'ers.

I'd prefer a well struck image with sharp corners and with some slight off centering any day of the week,
than a 50/50, out of focus card with corner wear. But that's me and my personal preference.

It's all in the eye of the beholder.

corncobb

While this subject has been debated many times before,

I will agree with "cardbender"(Hi Rich) that the card registration and color
are often overlooked by TPGing.

Now Im an absolute centering freak and I am on the other side of the debate
when it comes to the centering vs corners issue.

Now don't get me wrong, my OCD wants it all! Perfect Cards!

Perfect Centering, Razor sharp Corners, Flawless surface with super rich color and Photo registration.

I would prefer to take a hint on a corner, NOT a bend, crease or ding, but a microscopic hint under close inspection on a corner,
versus a off centered card with perfect corners. Thats just me and my personal preference.

As "Cardbender" (Hi Rich) said, Centering is purely a production flaw, and while that may be true,
It is not out of the collectors control to find the centering he desires by searching for a better centered one.
If one exists. There are many vintage cards that are notorious for bad centering due to their position on the
uncut sheet and the "production Flaw" when it was cut. Therefore I always feel that finding the sharp corners
is an easier task than finding the centering on many of these notorious cards.

No matter what side of the fence you fall on with centering vs corners, In my opinion it is indisputable that the
very first thing your eye will notice about ANY card it sees for the first time, is the centering.
You have no choice in the matter as it an involuntary action. The eye will always be drawen to the centering first.

The other issue with the centering debate......... Can an off center or even a mis-cut card be MINT or NM-MT?

With centering being a production flaw as we stated, If the card exhibits all of the attributes of that said grade,

Then the answer is an obvious.... YES, it can be MINT or NM-MT. Do I as a centering freak have to accept the card?

NO... I can choose to look for one that more meets my personal centering tolerence.

This brings me to subject of TPGing and the use of the OC qualifier.

Centering is THE ONE THING a card can not hide from and I strongly disagree with the need for the OC qualifier.

I think the way PSA uses the OC qualifier is wrong and very misleading. Allowing a person to opt out of that qualifer

in favor of a drop in the grade of the card is just plain wrong to me.


Heres an example why I feel this way.

Look at this card. It is absolutely Razor Mint sharp in every way shape and form



Obviously it is OC and nobody will dispute that. weather all of its other beauty falls within one's personal centering tolerence and preference
is up to each individual person.

To allow the card to be down graded one or two grades simply because one didn't want the OC qualifier?

That card is MINT and the centering is clear for all to see. To now call it NM because the submitter didn't want the qualifier is wrong
and misleading as to the actual real condition of the card.

Anyway, thats once again my 2 cents on the subject matter.

Indy78

At first glance, the Bussey looked centered to me. I think that's because my eye was drawn to the player who is largely centered relative to the card edges. It wasn't until I moved my eyes to examine the border centering relative to the card edges that I noticed any off-centering.

When I look at a card for my raw collection, I take in all the visual effects of the individual card together in deciding whether to acquire it. If it looks right to me, I buy it. I have better things to do than fret over technicalities when it comes to building my raw sets.

pjb103183

imo, centering most certainly counts against the grade....ill take a centered 7 over an off center 8 or 9 any day...and pay alot less! i think the "qualifiers" are bs...the card should just receive a lower grade, whether it was a "production" issue or not, its still a FLAW....so yes, a mint card with 80/20 centering should grade an 8, not a 9 oc...i like the way beckett used subgrades to better explain the overall grade the card was given

jay0791

It has been said so often here on the boards. "buy the card, not the grade."

For me I like a nicely centered card. Rounded corners are also a turn-off.

I have a tendency to wait for the card I want and often I have to pay top dollar within reason.

Ebay is full of cards at 2 or 3X VCP. Price is an important factor. For me at least the perfect card still has to be reasonable.

For most of my sets there is a minimum grade I am willing to purchase.

Often its a balance of corners, color, centering, lack of defects such as print dots or lines, and yes focus.

corncobb

<< <i>At first glance, the Bussey looked centered to me. I think that's because my eye was drawn to the player who is largely centered relative to the card edges. It wasn't until I moved my eyes to examine the border centering relative to the card edges that I noticed any off-centering.

<< <i>


Yea, Right

Indy78

You got it - there are actually folks out there that have different perspective than yours.

Yankees001

Centering Vs Grade:

I'd say it depends on the card. The year, set, player and everything.

A 1993 Topps George Brett should be perfect, otherwise it's junk.

Cards are not all viewed the same to me.

Dave