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Half disme on ebay with a story

joebb21joebb21 Posts: 4,760 ✭✭✭✭✭
link

Obviously its a great coin. The story on the other hand- apparently lined paper existed since 19th century

may the fonz be with you...always...

Comments

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  • Wow..it's amazing what ends up on ebay sometimes.

    I don't know, from the looks of it I'd be inclined to believe the letter is legit. But I'm not really up on my lined paper history image

    And, not that the grade really matters, but that looks sharper than VG to me!
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  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The question is , would I bid on this H10c?
    Answer after the auction is over. >>



    LOL So were you the underbidder or did you win it?
  • SmEagle1795SmEagle1795 Posts: 2,193 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just closed for $26,900. That's a heck of a lot of detail for $27K for a half disme. Yes, it's imperfect, but that is a very reasonable price in my eyes. (Note, I did not bid on it)
    Learn about our world's shared history told through the first millennium of coinage: Colosseo Collection
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  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The story on the other hand- I believe a little questionable as Loose leaf paper was not around until many years after 1872 >>



    Loose leaf paper was invented in 1914 but blue lined paper has been around since the early 1800s:



    << <i>In 1770, Englishman John Tetlow was given the first patent for lined paper ruling machine. However, Ottaviano Petrucci's music printing process involved printing staff lines first.

    Finally in the early 1800s, people started using the blue lined paper we see today, with loose leaf invented in 1914. And that is what we still write on today! >>



  • << <i>It will be returning to the market by the dealer who won it for approx. $50K imho. It is a nice example of the type. >>



    That sounds about right..and probably in a PCGS VF details, scratches holder.
  • commoncents05commoncents05 Posts: 10,096 ✭✭✭
    Very neat coin, it was in my watch list. I would tend to believe the story. It doesn't add any monetary value, so I don't think it would be made up just to add to the listing.

    -Paul
    Many Quality coins for sale at http://www.CommonCentsRareCoins.com
  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>It will be returning to the market by the dealer who won it for approx. $50K imho. It is a nice example of the type. >>



    So are you admitting a shill bid here?????????
  • joebb21joebb21 Posts: 4,760 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There are not that many ebayers with 60k+ feedback.

    may the fonz be with you...always...
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  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>It will be returning to the market by the dealer who won it for approx. $50K imho. It is a nice example of the type. >>



    So are you admitting a shill bid here????????? >>



    S***G had an 85% history with seller, would you classify that as lo, med, or hi? The winning bidder was not s hill bidder imho with only 15%. >>



    If it is returning to the market by the dealer who won it for around 50K then 1 can only draw 1 conclussion! Just wonder if ebay gets it's cut!
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I wonder if it's possible to track down the provenance with more detail using Ancestry.com. image
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,623 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I love the story.

    At ANACS I once saw a very high grade Turban Head $5 that had been wrapped in a piece of paper that said (more or less) "To xxxxxxx, an American Guinea. Christmas, 1805"
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • AnkurJAnkurJ Posts: 11,370 ✭✭✭✭
    Nice coin that I was thinking about bidding on as well. But at the end of the day I would rather have a problem free example for an extra 10k.

    Dealers can ask whatever they want, it doesnt mean that the coin will actually sell for that amount.
    All coins kept in bank vaults.
    PCGS Registries
    Box of 20
    SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
  • Who on the heck has a grandmother named Brain??????
  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Fascinating that the letter survived intact with the coin. BTW- the header reads: Springfield Dec. 1872.

    The first sentence reads: I send a birthday gift...

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.american-legacy-coins.com

  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,496 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Who on the heck has a grandmother named Brain?????? >>



    It was customary in that time period to give the respect due family by referring to them in such correpondence by surname. The grandmother's family surname was Brain. Not an unusual name for a New England family.

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.american-legacy-coins.com

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The Willard Genealogy: Sequel to Willard Memoir has a very close, uncanny, reference:

    Levi Willard was born in 1802 and married to Mrs. Mary (Brain) Strain of Springfield, OH in 1852. The names Willard and Brain are correct as is 1802 and Springfield, OH. Both Willard and Brain passed away after the date of the letter, in 1884 and 1900 respectively. Levi Willard also had a granddaughter, Mary Brain, who was born on Dec 5, 1866 to parents who resided Springfield, OH and who would have celebrated her 6 year old birthday the month and year the letter was written.

    The question is what does the phrase "bears the date, (1792) of your grandmother Brain" mean. The genealogy says Brain was born in 1814 and the letter doesn't say why 1792 is the year for Brain.

    With this information, I'm guessing it would be easy to research this on Ancestry.com, and see who the closest descendants of Levi, Brain and little Mary are today.

    Here's the letter for posterity with CD's additions:



    << <i>Springfield Dec 1872

    Dear little Mary:

    I send you a birth-day present; not because a half-dime is worth, much, but bears the date, (1792) of your grandmother Brain.

    It is ten years older than your grandpa Willard.

    You may perhaps give this same little coin to your grand child. U.S coins of this size and 80 years old are not common now.

    And this will never grow any bigger nor any better; but you will grow bigger, - whether better or worse I can not say.

    Your grandfather Willard >>

  • There is a watermark or similar impression on the upper left corner of the paper. Can anyone identify this?
  • determineddetermined Posts: 771 ✭✭✭
    From the letter:

    U.S coins of this size and
    80 years old are not common now.


    Hey grandfather Willard, you should see how not common it is in 2013!

    Cool story. I tend to think it authentic.
    I collect history in the form of coins.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,623 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>There is a watermark or similar impression on the upper left corner of the paper. Can anyone identify this? >>



    Looks like an embossing. Appears to be a winged shield with a caduceus behind it.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • jonathanbjonathanb Posts: 3,725 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Appears to be a winged shield with a caduceus behind it. >>

    I'm pretty confident it's a winged helmet, that and the caduceus both being symbols of Mercury
  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would not be surprised to learn that Levi Willard was a physician, based on the symbolism of the embossed insignia on the stationary.

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.american-legacy-coins.com

  • Are you telling me Grandma Brain couldn't have found a more wholesome example?

    image
    Let's try not to get upset.
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,510 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have seen half dismes with way less detail remaining in VF holders. That coin will upgrade (details-wise)
  • Levi Willard (11/4/1802-2/2/1884) was a school teacher in Dekatur, Georgia. The mother of his children was Sarah Phipps Allen (1810-1847). His second marriage to Mary (Brain) Strain produced no children. They moved to Springfield, Ohio in 1864.

    Mary Brain's parents were George Brain, Jr. and Sarah Maria Willard, daughter of Levi. George Brain's father was George Brain, Sr. (1784-1851), married to Mary Whitehead, who was born in 1792.

    Mary Brain was born on December 5, 1866. She died, unmarried, on May 11, 1925.

    So, if she was unmarried, who inherited her half disme?
  • goldengolden Posts: 9,972 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Very, very cool!
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,185 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Brain Strain. Really?
  • Alltheabove76Alltheabove76 Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭
    Lined paper absolutely did exist in the 1870s.

    Here is another example. Link

    Also, I would've bid up to 30K for that coin if I had seen it! image
  • Billet7Billet7 Posts: 4,923 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Brain Strain. Really? >>




    I thought the same thing! Glad someone else pointed it out.

  • CoinosaurusCoinosaurus Posts: 9,641 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Levi Willard (11/4/1802-2/2/1884) was a school teacher in Dekatur, Georgia. The mother of his children was Sarah Phipps Allen (1810-1847). His second marriage to Mary (Brain) Strain produced no children. They moved to Springfield, Ohio in 1864.

    Mary Brain's parents were George Brain, Jr. and Sarah Maria Willard, daughter of Levi. George Brain's father was George Brain, Sr. (1784-1851), married to Mary Whitehead, who was born in 1792.

    Mary Brain was born on December 5, 1866. She died, unmarried, on May 11, 1925.
    >>



    Nicely done image
  • guitarwesguitarwes Posts: 9,289 ✭✭✭
    This is a pretty cool thread and coin.
    @ Elite CNC Routing & Woodworks on Facebook. Check out my work.
    Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
  • MilkmanDanMilkmanDan Posts: 3,760 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>It will be returning to the market by the dealer who won it for approx. $50K imho. It is a nice example of the type. >>


    Looks like someone is optimistic about the market for problem half dismes...gee I wonder why.
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,510 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>It will be returning to the market by the dealer who won it for approx. $50K imho. It is a nice example of the type. >>


    Looks like someone is optimistic about the market for problem half dismes...gee I wonder why. >>



    image Yes, he found a really good one! Worth more than he paid, for sure...but doubt he will ever sell it.

    And I believe his is dead-accurate with his prediction. That coin is way better than a lot of the garbage that has sold for good money in the past few years.
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  • MilkmanDanMilkmanDan Posts: 3,760 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>It will be returning to the market by the dealer who won it for approx. $50K imho. It is a nice example of the type. >>


    Looks like someone is optimistic about the market for problem half dismes...gee I wonder why. >>



    You just don't give up with your disparaging comments do you Dan.....keep it up. So now when a member believes a flipper has purchased a coin, the member (me) has evil motivations to believe that, right Dan. You are extremely fair and just regarding me and my collection/collecting. >>


    Whoa there tiger you are reading into things a bit. When a coin like this sells for $27k and someone immediately believes it will be offered for near double that, I would say that's a bit optimistic. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe eBay was a horrible venue to sell it or there's some other reason the market spoke $27k today and will say $50k tomorrow.

    Don't get me wrong, as I said in your original post about the drilled half disme I love it. My comment was tongue in cheek...quit being so sensitive and chill out.

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