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Way to go Vikings!
JoeBanzai
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in Sports Talk
Despite scoring almost 30 points per game, Christian Ponder and his 60% completion rate is benched, even though the defense fails to stop week two and three opponents while leading with less than three minutes remaining.
Matt Castle performs well in victory over Pittsburgh, who couldn't stop Adrian Peterson (more on running game later) or generate any pass rush. Steelers were about ready to tie the game when Big Ben fumbled deep in Minnesota territory.
Other than the Steelers game and a few nice long touchdown runs the best running back in the league has been almost ineffective.
Defense has been unable to stop anyone, giving up almost 30 PPG. We didn't need Antione Winfield, one of the best defensive backs we have ever had.
Now we have a new savior in Josh Freeman and they rush him into the starting lineup and he completes about 30% of his passes. Offense has been basically shut out in last two games.
While not doing one single thing to improve the defense, the management and coaching staff has made the offense much worse.
Overall team was MUCH more competitive with Ponder, but he got blamed for the team's bad start.
What's even better is the team might be losing both Kevin Williams and Jared Allen at the end of the season.
The future is not looking good!
THANK GOD WE BENCHED CHRISTIAN PONDER!!!!!!
Matt Castle performs well in victory over Pittsburgh, who couldn't stop Adrian Peterson (more on running game later) or generate any pass rush. Steelers were about ready to tie the game when Big Ben fumbled deep in Minnesota territory.
Other than the Steelers game and a few nice long touchdown runs the best running back in the league has been almost ineffective.
Defense has been unable to stop anyone, giving up almost 30 PPG. We didn't need Antione Winfield, one of the best defensive backs we have ever had.
Now we have a new savior in Josh Freeman and they rush him into the starting lineup and he completes about 30% of his passes. Offense has been basically shut out in last two games.
While not doing one single thing to improve the defense, the management and coaching staff has made the offense much worse.
Overall team was MUCH more competitive with Ponder, but he got blamed for the team's bad start.
What's even better is the team might be losing both Kevin Williams and Jared Allen at the end of the season.
The future is not looking good!
THANK GOD WE BENCHED CHRISTIAN PONDER!!!!!!
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Comments
<< <i>Again you prove to be completely in the dark, thanks for the consistency though! >>
The fact that you think Ponder is the answer to the Vikings' problems suggests you are the one in the dark. I'm not saying Freeman is better (I was a big proponent of his ouster from TB), but Ponder is an awful NFL QB.
<< <i>
<< <i>Again you prove to be completely in the dark, thanks for the consistency though! >>
The fact that you think Ponder is the answer to the Vikings' problems suggests you are the one in the dark. I'm not saying Freeman is better (I was a big proponent of his ouster from TB), but Ponder is an awful NFL QB. >>
It gets too tiring trying to post back and forth with you. You simply are unable to understand any thoughts not in your own mind.
I never said Ponder was "the answer", he is still the best option they have until they can draft or otherwise acquire someone better. I don't give a rats a$$ what his QB rating is, he brought the team back from behind in games 2 and 3 to take the lead with less than 3 minutes remaining and the DEFENSE was unable to stop the other team from scoring at the very end of the game. How exactly is that Ponders fault?
I have no problem with replacing Ponder, first you need to find someone who is BETTER or has a chance to be.
Since you brought up QB ratings, Ponder's is better than Freeman's, so why would you think he was going to be any better.
The FACT is, the Viking's offense played better and scored more points with Ponder as the starter than with Castle or Freeman. Since franchise QB's are hard to come by, there are OTHER ways to improve the team.
The defense has given up 30 points a game and can't make a stop when they need to and the offensive line seems to have forgotten how to block.
No Quarterback is going to have much success without some blocking up front. That's one of the reasons why I said Ponder wasn't the problem.
<< <i>
It gets too tiring trying to post back and forth with you. You simply are unable to understand any thoughts not in your own mind.
>>
And yet here you are.
<< <i>I never said Ponder was "the answer", he is still the best option they have until they can draft or otherwise acquire someone better. I don't give a rats a$$ what his QB rating is, he brought the team back from behind in games 2 and 3 to take the lead with less than 3 minutes remaining and the DEFENSE was unable to stop the other team from scoring at the very end of the game. How exactly is that Ponders fault? >>
You don't care what his QB rating is? You should - it's an evaluation of a QB's effectiveness. The fact that you're willing to completely overlook such a baseline stat is quite telling.
<< <i>I have no problem with replacing Ponder, first you need to find someone who is BETTER or has a chance to be. >>
Since he was near the very bottom in QB rating, that won't be very hard to do.
<< <i>Since you brought up QB ratings, Ponder's is better than Freeman's, so why would you think he was going to be any better. >>
Please go through my post and PLEASE point out where I said this was the case. I double dog dare you.
<< <i>The FACT is, the Viking's offense played better and scored more points with Ponder as the starter than with Castle or Freeman. Since franchise QB's are hard to come by, there are OTHER ways to improve the team. >>
And how would you improve this team, without a franchise QB? Don't make a statement like that without ideas to back it up. Here's a hint: if there were other ways to make the team better I think they would have implemented them already.
<< <i>The defense has given up 30 points a game and can't make a stop when they need to and the offensive line seems to have forgotten how to block.
No Quarterback is going to have much success without some blocking up front. That's one of the reasons why I said Ponder wasn't the problem. >>
Trying to blame Freeman when these two issues are much more pressing seems futile at best.
The Vikings are a mess. I wonder how long until Peterson asks for a trade? He deserves better than what he's got there.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Favre's INT in the NFC Championship game vs the Saints must seem like an eternity ago to Vikings fans.. >>
Yes, it does. It's a shame the "Saints" were allowed to cheap shot Farve the entire game, it did work though. We were by far the superior team. Painful memory, along with the loss to the Falcons in the 2009 NFC Championship game and four dismal Super Bowl performances.
I have to think the Vikes have the worst track record for drafting QB's of any team in the NFL. Even the one guy they were right on, Fran Tarkenton was traded away at one point. Since Fran retired we really have had little or no success with guys we draft. Kramer had some talent, but was too much of a drunk and Culpepper had a couple of good seasons until he hurt his knee.
We are so bad at drafting QB's, I can only think of one who had success after leaving here and that was Rich Gannon.
If the Vikes lose half of their D-line after this year they might not win a game next year. Any Andrew Luck type of quarterbacks going to be available?
By the time we get someone decent Peterson will be over the hill or just gone.
<< <i>along with the loss to the Falcons in the 2009 NFC Championship game >>
I assume you meant the '99 game. I was in awe of the Cunningham to Moss connection and that sick defense.
<< <i>
<< <i>along with the loss to the Falcons in the 2009 NFC Championship game >>
I assume you meant the '99 game. I was in awe of the Cunningham to Moss connection and that sick defense. >>
Yes, hard to type while crying LOL.
That offense let us down in the second half, of course we didn't know how fast that team would implode. Again FAR SUPERIOR team than the Falcons. Did not get it done. I was always worried about that team VERY arrogant bunch, choked when it counted.
Sigh.
Just to add: Freeman starting right away was laughable and really made the entire league look bad. That product on the field for MNF was a disaster.....the Giants are God awful too.
You just know he is going to FU......just a matter of when!
I just find it rather odd that you are so negative towards the starting QB for the team you supposedly support (which also happens to be in first place). It almost seems like you'd rather see the Cowboys lose.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>You just know he is going to FU......just a matter of when!
I just find it rather odd that you are so negative towards the starting QB for the team you supposedly support (which also happens to be in first place). It almost seems like you'd rather see the Cowboys lose. >>
This is absolutely 100% true. I've never seen someone so adamantly negative towards his own team's QB. But this is the same guy who can't spell his team's all time best WR's name right nor remember the name of his team's all time best RB, either.
I am a huge Cowboy fan since 1960 when they came in and I don't ever want them to lose! I don't want ROMO to FU either, but he has time and time again and I don't see it changing. It's not like he is new!!!! This is what his 7th year.....I think his pattern is pretty much set.
Yes, we are in first place..... because the rest of the NFC East sucks even more than Romo. We could possibly win the NFC East and go to the playoffs and be one and done with the typical Romo choke with the game on the line.
And please don't bring up Romo's come from behind stat..that doesn't mean squat. He has more than Steve Young!
Who would you rather have Romo or Steve Young. I will take Steve Young...thank you very MUCH!!!!!
Of course, Young is a HOFer and one of the all time greatest QBs in NFL history. I'd rather have Joe Montana, too, while you're at it, LOL..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I misspell Ervins name.....BIG Deal. And when did I ever not know Emmit Smiths name???? You people don't pay attention at all!
I am a huge Cowboy fan since 1960 when they came in and I don't ever want them to lose! I don't want ROMO to FU either, but he has time and time again and I don't see it changing. It's not like he is new!!!! This is what his 7th year.....I think his pattern is pretty much set.
Yes, we are in first place..... because the rest of the NFC East sucks even more than Romo. We could possibly win the NFC East and go to the playoffs and be one and done with the typical Romo choke with the game on the line.
And please don't bring up Romo's come from behind stat..that doesn't mean squat. He has more than Steve Young!
Who would you rather have Romo or Steve Young. I will take Steve Young...thank you very MUCH!!!!! >>
That's 'Emmitt'-- not 'Emmit'.
<< <i>
<< <i>I have to think the Vikes have the worst track record for drafting QB's of any team in the NFL.. >>
Cleveland? Miami?
Leslie Frazier has proved that one must actually open their mouth to coach football -- at any position. He's a mute & is making himself moot. He may be a "nice Christian man", but they don't give awards for that. Not sure why he wears a headset...those who watch the games regularly know what I mean...
As for the product on the field, Ponder has skills but isn't a guy that is going to win you a Super Bowl.
They would be best to let Ponder play out the season as Freeman has some type of attitude/motivational problems to go with his very inconsistent performance.
Johnny Manziel would be a lot of fun to have. It would be like the re-creation of Fran Tarkenton.
JoeBanzai -- chill out
Erik
My point was simply that changing QB's is not going to help the defense, or the offensive line play. Frasier is looking like a poor coach. Adrian Peterson has had one good game rushing as well.
Blaming Ponder for the 0-3 start was foolish.
Secondly, if you replace someone with another similar quality player(or worse), don't expect much improvement.
If Jared Allen and Kevin Williams leave after this season and they don't replace them with some quality D-Linemen (needs at linebacker as well), I don't care who you have playing QB.
Defense is still part of the game. Only three teams are giving up more points per game than the Vikings and after tonight they might be dead last. The "easy" part of the schedule is over.
Packers didn't have to punt even one time. Frasier says we have to do it with the guys we have. If we have to suffer through a horrible season, they better get their Quarterback next year.
Is this Manziel guy that good? I kind of like AJ McCarron. Apparently lots of good choices, Vikes need to make the right one.
Don't know what they plan on doing with the defense.
A few years ago they were able to trade for Jared Allen, Pat Williams and Antoine Winfield, why isn't that an option now?
Erik
<< <i>I think I saw Leslie Frazier utter the word "um" with his headset on. Time to change out the microphone on his headset... I've never seen a coach that doesn't talk... >>
Vikings had their most successful run with Bud Grant. Maybe they should concentrate on bringing in a proven Head Coach.
Who's out there? Parcells, Gruden, Cower?
Erik
I am sure the stress is much higher in coaching. Just having to answer those asinine questions every week would drive me crazy.
As far as the Vikings are concerned, they have had several good head coaches but no great ones since Bud Grant. They had Dungy on their staff and failed to recognize his talent.
If you can't find someone "new" that is going to turn out great, your only choice is to pursue someone who you know can get the job done.
At this point, if I were the owner, I would approach Tony Dungy with a blank check and offer total control of the team. Whatever he wanted, he would get.
I do agree that these ex-coaches don't have anything to prove and wouldn't blame them for keeping their "cushy" TV jobs. I am just offering up ideas that might improve the football team I follow.
Benching Ponder for Freeman doesn't look to me to be much of an improvement.
<< <i>If the money was as good, I would think the reward of building a team into a contender would have a lot more rewards than sitting around on your a$$ blabbing about other people's accomplishments and failures. >>
But the Vikes aren't a contender, and they are bleeding talent. Throw in having no QB whatsoever and you have a long, winding road before Minnesota is going to be good again.
<< <i>I am sure the stress is much higher in coaching. Just having to answer those asinine questions every week would drive me crazy. >>
Have you ever seen a coach's press conference? It's these questions + the stress of having to coach. No wonder these guys don't want to coach again. Why would they?
<< <i>As far as the Vikings are concerned, they have had several good head coaches but no great ones since Bud Grant. They had Dungy on their staff and failed to recognize his talent.
If you can't find someone "new" that is going to turn out great, your only choice is to pursue someone who you know can get the job done.
At this point, if I were the owner, I would approach Tony Dungy with a blank check and offer total control of the team. Whatever he wanted, he would get. >>
What about Dungy would make you think money is his motivating factor? He walked away from coaching to spend more time with his family. He's landed a high paying, visible job talking football and he doesn't have to make the sacrifice needed to be a head coach.
<< <i>I do agree that these ex-coaches don't have anything to prove and wouldn't blame them for keeping their "cushy" TV jobs. I am just offering up ideas that might improve the football team I follow. >>
I understand, but at some point that search needs to expand. I've just seen the same approach taken over and over: big name, ex coach is first on the list, then when that doesn't happen, scramble for some college coach. I saw it happen with my Bucs and we ended up with Schiano who's been awful. There needs to be a better way.
<< <i>Benching Ponder for Freeman doesn't look to me to be much of an improvement. >>
Ponder and Freeman are both awful QBs. When a QB is allowed to walk for no reimbursement it tells you all you need to know about his talent level (or lack thereof), but when coaches are coaching for their professional life, they'll take any chance at change to save their hides.
Vikings certainly have some talent especially on offense, but they better get some defensive help AND some leadership or they are going to be giving up 45 points a game next year, even with a soft schedule.
Maybe they can move up and take Jadeveon Clowney and still get a good QB a little later.
I never know what exactly is wrong with the Vikings, but I do feel it was terrible of AP to speak up saying he would run for 2500 yards this year. There is no team in that - well actually there is, but it was meant as "I am great and can do this". It wasn't meant as "my OL is so great, they will help me get there".
They have some good players, but for example it seems like Jared Allen will get a big sack and then they will allow a first down anyway, and JA won't be heard from for the next 2 qtrs. or something. Their DBs are questionable at best.
I certainly thing Leslie Frazier hasn't shown any signs of being a great coach.
I really think maybe their biggest problem is everyone says how great AP is so the rest of the team trys to lean on him and hope he will just magically get them wins, etc. Then they fall behind and it's very hard to run when you are starting from behind (And the other team stops the run with a bunch of guys in the box).
I do think AP is a great player, but it is not enough.
JJacks
<< <i>I never know what exactly is wrong with the Vikings, but I do feel it was terrible of AP to speak up saying he would run for 2500 yards this year. There is no team in that - well actually there is, but it was meant as "I am great and can do this". It wasn't meant as "my OL is so great, they will help me get there".
They have some good players, but for example it seems like Jared Allen will get a big sack and then they will allow a first down anyway, and JA won't be heard from for the next 2 qtrs. or something. Their DBs are questionable at best.
I certainly thing Leslie Frazier hasn't shown any signs of being a great coach.
I really think maybe their biggest problem is everyone says how great AP is so the rest of the team trys to lean on him and hope he will just magically get them wins, etc. Then they fall behind and it's very hard to run when you are starting from behind (And the other team stops the run with a bunch of guys in the box).
I do think AP is a great player, but it is not enough.
JJacks >>
Good to hear from another Vikings fan!
What confuses me the most is, everyone says the other team is geared to stop AP and puts 7-8 guys "in the box". Why then doesn't a play action pass to a tight end or slot receiver work almost all the time? Ponder certainly can make the short and medium passes, especially if he is not rushed.
Agree to a certain point on Jared Allen, however it was as bad, if not worse when Chris Doleman was at RE, they seem to be big play guys, all or nothing. Kevin Williams has not done much either. A strong defensive line that can get after the passer makes the entire defensive backfield better. Another linebacker would be nice too.
Vikings are within a few points of allowing the most points per game in the entire NFL. They are middle of the pack in scoring offensively. Three or four stops and we would have at least three wins and have a chance at the wild card. Might be a better idea at this point to lose the rest and get a top draft pick. With all the good QB's coming out next year, maybe we can get an impact defensive player and a good quarterback as well. Neither Ponder or Freeman look like franchise QB's.
Would still like to see a GOOD HEAD COACH!