Why are Cameo Coins more valuable?

Coins299

What about them makes them more valuable?

If anything; wouldn't they be caused by weaker proof dies in the mint?

What exactly causes cameo, in the older proof days?

Thanks.

jmj3esq

Early cameos are extremely rare. Its how they polish the dies I believe. I think the real cameos are the first of coins that are struck. At the time not much care was given to produce cameo coins.

DennisH

Beauty.

indeetlib

I think the fact that cameo examples are more valuable has to do with them just being more impressive-looking to most collectors than an example without contrast.

A cameo appearance has everything to do with the finish of the dies, namely a matte-like texture within the devices of the die and a highly polished and buffed finish to the high points of the die (the fields of the coin). The more a particular set of proof dies are used without being refinished, the more the devices will slowly lose their frosted appearance and the fields lose their mirrored finish and the cameo contrast will diminish.

ModCrewman

Eye Appeal. Of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and from your sentiment it appears you are one of the minority that disagree that a Cameo coin is more attractive.

SanctionII

The answer to your question can be either short and to the point, or very long winded.

I assume you are taking about proof coins (and SMS Coins) made prior to 1973 (as most proof coins made after 1972 usually are Cameo and all proof coins made after around 1977 are Cameo).

Short answer: Many people view Cameo proofs as being much more attractive, eye appealing and beautiful than brilliant proofs and thus prefer Cameo and Deep Cameo (PCGS term) or Ultra Cameo (NGC term) proof and SMS coins. Further in 1973 the Mint changed the production methods used for making proof coins, by, among other things, chrome plating proof dies (to strenghten same and make the dies more durable and thus able to produce more Cameo coins per die than in prior years). Prior to 1973 the production technology was much more primative and as a result proof and SMS dies produced far fewer Cameo coins per die, thus making Cameo coins for 1972 a much smaller percentage of the total mintage (and thus much harder to find, thus much "rarer" and thus more valuable).

Long answer: To get the long answer, you should get and read a copy of the book Proof and SMS Coinage Of The 1950-1970 Era written by Rick Tomaska of R&I Coins in 1991. This book (plus an earlier 1984 book on 1950-1964 Cameo proof coins) contain detailed information on these early Cameos and will give you all the information you need to become knowledgable in this niche area of the hobby.

There are also a number for threads that have been posted on the forums over the years on the topic of Cameo proof and SMS coins predating 1973, going back to 1950, to the 1936-1942 era and going back to the pre 1917 proof era.

It is a fun area of the hobby to play in.

AUandAG

In Morgans it is usually referred to as frosted Proof Like or frosted Deep Mirror Proof Like.

I'm talking about business strike coins, not proofs.

When the dies were prepared, they were meticulously polished at the mint before being used
or sent to the branch mints. Of course the fields being the highest portion of the dies were
polished to such a perfect flatness, without imperfections, that the first dozen(s) that were struck
ended up looking absolutely stunning. The deeper portions of the dies were less polished and
thus had many minute imperfections that accounts for the "frost" that resulted when struck.

This coin, below, shows the mirrors and the frost but also shows the clashing of dies. Thus this
die that produced this reverse was polished at the branch mint after the clashing. The purpose
was to extend the life of the die and to remove most of the clashing marks.



Hope this helps to explain older coins.

bob

cladking

Cameo coins also tend to be earlier strikes so tend to be superior to non-cameo or non-PL coins.

magikbilly

<< <i>In Morgans it is usually referred to as frosted Proof Like or frosted Deep Mirror Proof Like.

I'm talking about business strike coins, not proofs.

When the dies were prepared, they were meticulously polished at the mint before being used
or sent to the branch mints. Of course the fields being the highest portion of the dies were
polished to such a perfect flatness, without imperfections, that the first dozen(s) that were struck
ended up looking absolutely stunning. The deeper portions of the dies were less polished and
thus had many minute imperfections that accounts for the "frost" that resulted when struck.

This coin, below, shows the mirrors and the frost but also shows the clashing of dies. Thus this
die that produced this reverse was polished at the branch mint after the clashing. The purpose
was to extend the life of the die and to remove most of the clashing marks.



Hope this helps to explain older coins.

bob >>



This was a good answer. Unpolished portions of the die. Nice photo too.

Eric

Jcarney

Back in the olden days, acid was applied to proof dies causing a "frosted" look. The dies were then polished, removing this frosting from the fields but leaving it in the recesses (devices). When a blank was struck with dies prepared in this manner, the fields would be highly mirrored and the devices would be frosty. Repeated strikes would wear down this frosted surface of the die and also eventually dull the mirrored fields. Thus, a cameo coin is one of the earlier struck coins from these dies, scarcer than the later struck brilliant coins and therefore, more valuable.

roadrunner

Why are Cameo Coins more valuable?

I've never really understood this....at least for things like Barber, Seated, and Morgan proofs for example. Getting a CAM or DCAM usually means you found yourself a dipped coin.
I'd rather have the 60-90% Cameo coin that still retains its original patina. No need to expose that hidden bit of Cameo for a few registry set points.

There is hope though. I've seen some gem orig toned 85-90% CAM seated coins given the CAM designation. That does reduce the need to dip "everything" in search of CAMs.
I value an orig toned near-CAM over a dipped CAM any day. I see the rows of dipped proof Morgans at major shows (CAM and DCAMs) and just keep on walking. Just think, in another
20-100 years many or most of those will require another dip and rinse to get rid of the secondary toning.