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Values for Electrotypes - Purchase Update and Pictures Added

jmcu12jmcu12 Posts: 2,452 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
Are there any resources for values on Electrotypes? I have an 1793 chain cent that I am looking at but I don't know what to pay for it.


I purchased this Electrotype for $250; here are some rough photos. It is made of copper and while it is not real I think it looks very nice and will make a decent addition to my type set. And since I probably wont be able to afford a real one anytime soon, I think this is a great compromise!

image

image
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Comments

  • ambro51ambro51 Posts: 13,849 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Never realized they made these in 1893
  • AnkurJAnkurJ Posts: 11,370 ✭✭✭✭
    I sold this one for $250 a few years ago.

    imageimage
    All coins kept in bank vaults.
    PCGS Registries
    Box of 20
    SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
  • JohnHarperJohnHarper Posts: 145 ✭
    Value of electrotypes depends on condition, like everything else. Both condition of the host coin and the copy are important. A price of $200 to $300 is probably reasonable.
  • coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,739 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Value of electrotypes depends on condition, like everything else. Both condition of the host coin and the copy are important. A price of $200 to $300 is probably reasonable. >>








    image



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  • jmcu12jmcu12 Posts: 2,452 ✭✭✭


    << <i> Never realized they made these in 1893 >>



    Oops! I corrected myself.
    Awarded latest "YOU SUCK!": June 11, 2014
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,413 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Can't help you with the value on that one but can give you a ttt with this one. image

    The 1793 looks a little on the crude side so I would be conservative on what you pay. I'll never own some of the great rarities so electrotypes will have to do. I'm told that the US mint "back in the day" made some very good quality ones for collectors but don't know what the diagnostics are.

    image
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • jmcu12jmcu12 Posts: 2,452 ✭✭✭
    There was a controversial electrotype 1804 dollar a few years ago that was talked about on this forum.

    It is in a pcgs holder and that was causing some major issues with the membership...
    Awarded latest "YOU SUCK!": June 11, 2014
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,444 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Since they're worth $200-$300, might we expect a flood in the market soon ?image
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,415 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>There was a controversial electrotype 1804 dollar a few years ago that was talked about on this forum.

    It is in a pcgs holder and that was causing some major issues with the membership... >>


    Why? Was it because PCGS knowingly slabbed a counterfeit?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,366 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>There was a controversial electrotype 1804 dollar a few years ago that was talked about on this forum.

    It is in a pcgs holder and that was causing some major issues with the membership... >>


    Why? Was it because PCGS knowingly slabbed a counterfeit? >>



    Interesting insert:

    image
    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • NumbersUsacomNumbersUsacom Posts: 1,457 ✭
    A very nice Washington Cent, dated 1792 "Roman Head " electrotype circa 1860's went for over $900.00 on ebay about a year ago or so
    NumbersUsa, FairUs, Alipac, CapsWeb, and TeamAmericaPac
  • SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Extremely well made electrotypes (19th century) will easily bring north of $1K.
    Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA

    RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'

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  • STONESTONE Posts: 15,275 ✭
    Many were also made for museum display when the real-thing was either too expensive or could not be located.

    I recently owner a uni-face reverse Bust Dollar Electrotype from 1802 - I know it was 1802 because of the reverse die used!
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,415 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Technically, these are counterfeits and illegal to own. Right?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Technically, these are counterfeits and illegal to own. Right? >>



    Technically perhaps so, but the U.S. Mint was making electrotypes in the late 19th century too. Proving who made a given piece and where it was made wouldn't be easy.
    Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA

    RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'

    CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,366 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Technically, these are counterfeits and illegal to own. Right? >>



    In general, it seems that classic and modern counterfeits may be illegal to own, but there seems to be more acceptance and collectors of "classic counterfeits" than modern ones. Classic era seems to include both contemporary and non-contemporary pieces up through the 19th century. These are generally collected and can be stabbed. More modern pieces are not as as collectible.

    Additionally, these aren't generally being passed as currency or as the real, die struck, item.
    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • ebaybuyerebaybuyer Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭
    Text
    regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
  • ebaybuyerebaybuyer Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭
    "with intent to defraud" the law is quite clear, if there is no intent to defraud, then there is no crime in owning counterfeits
    regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
  • jmcu12jmcu12 Posts: 2,452 ✭✭✭
    It also says denoms higher than 5 cents.
    Awarded latest "YOU SUCK!": June 11, 2014
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,366 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Text >>



    Thanks for providing this. It's good to read things again as you can find things you hadn't noticed and considered before. This time around, I found two pretty interesting perspectives:

    (1) It seems like it might still be legal to make counterfeit coins with denominations 5 cents or less as long as the person doesn't defraud anyone. So it seems it might be legal to make all kinds of coins including colonials, large cents, MPLs, brass cents, aluminum cents, etc. even without overstriking. I've always thought it would be nice to have the Schlag original nickels without the FSNS engraving and it seems like it might be legal to have them.

    (2) It seems like it might be legal to import modern counterfeits as long as the person doesn't intend to defraud. So with Chinese counterfeits, making the pieces is legal in China, and importing them to the US without the intend to deceive may be legal in the US. It's only when they are sold to deceive that it becomes illegal.

    I hadn't thought about these two things before and find them very interesting in terms of how the law is written and perhaps why modern counterfeits seem so prevalent.
    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • jmcu12jmcu12 Posts: 2,452 ✭✭✭
    I purchased this electrotype for $250; here are some rough photos. It is made of copper and while it is not real I think it looks very nice and will make a decent addition to my type set. And since I probably wont be able to afford a real one anytime soon, I think this is a great compromise!


    image

    image
    Awarded latest "YOU SUCK!": June 11, 2014
  • ambro51ambro51 Posts: 13,849 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It IS amazing to actually DO this fairly simple process. The results can be incredible. image
  • AnkurJAnkurJ Posts: 11,370 ✭✭✭✭
    Decent electro for the money. Nicely done! image
    All coins kept in bank vaults.
    PCGS Registries
    Box of 20
    SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,415 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Is anyone currently making electrotypes? Considering the high prices that people are willing to pay this may be an opportunity for someone.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't think that contemporary electrotypes would find much interest among collectors. Classic ones (19th century), on the other hand, are a different story.
    See David Fanning's article, 'When Fakes Become Collectible,' on the ANACS website: http://www.anacs.com/contentPages/ShowArticle.aspx?ID=19&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1
    Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA

    RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'

    CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
  • coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,739 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I don't think that contemporary electrotypes would find much interest among collectors. Classic ones (19th century), on the other hand, are a different story.
    See David Fanning's article, 'When Fakes Become Collectible,' on the ANACS website: http://www.anacs.com/contentPages/ShowArticle.aspx?ID=19&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1 >>






    that was a very good article on electrotypes, thanks for the link!


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  • shorecollshorecoll Posts: 5,445 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You can check prices realized on CVM/Goldberg auctions, I think they've auctioned some of the early electros, also the EAC auctions have them.
    ANA-LM, NBS, EAC
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,366 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Is anyone currently making electrotypes? Considering the high prices that people are willing to pay this may be an opportunity for someone. >>



    I'm only aware of ambro51. I'm guessing there is a market for modern electrotypes, at least of certain coins.
    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,415 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Is anyone currently making electrotypes? Considering the high prices that people are willing to pay this may be an opportunity for someone. >>



    I'm only aware of ambro51. I'm guessing there is a market for modern electrotypes, at least of certain coins. >>


    Unless a specific electrotype has a pedigree, how can you tell how old it is? I imagine they would be easy enough to artificially age them.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,415 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm curious---Are there very many electrotypes for non-copper coins?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • JohnHarperJohnHarper Posts: 145 ✭
    I believe there were many electrotype copies made from ancient Greek silver coins. Some were sold by museums. The electrotype was produced in copper and plated in silver.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,366 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Is anyone currently making electrotypes? Considering the high prices that people are willing to pay this may be an opportunity for someone. >>



    I'm only aware of ambro51. I'm guessing there is a market for modern electrotypes, at least of certain coins. >>


    Unless a specific electrotype has a pedigree, how can you tell how old it is? I imagine they would be easy enough to artificially age them. >>



    I haven't thought too much about selling modern pieces as classic pieces. It would be interesting to know how good artificial aging could be.
    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,739 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 26, 2022 12:43AM

    I wanted to post some of my electrotypes and other counterfeit coinage. And, it thought this might be a good place to bookmark.
    .
    I have had these for many years and finally decided to slab them. IGC are the only ones that will slab them and mark Not Genuine and on the reverse it will say " For Educational Purpose Only" I think this is awesome and a fantastic way to keep them safe from any further decay. I have many more and working on imaging the entire collection.
    .
    Some that say cast I disagree with and I need to send them back to him at IGC to change them. I spoke to him on the phone and explained it my take awhile as I’m not up to par. So, slowly I’ll get them corrected and post the rest of the collection here.

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