51 TDs, how many rings til Peyton achieve Jordan level status?
LodiBrewFan
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-About 1200 completions short of the all time record.
-About 11,000 yards short of the all time record.
-About 50 TDs short of the all time record.
<< <i>Broncos do not go 19-0......................and Peyton has not yet won a playoff game for John Elway. >>
He's played in exactly one playoff game. I know it's impossible for you to remain anywhere near objective since he replaced your boy Tebow, but let's compare their numbers in Denver:
Tim Tebow:
Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV
2011 24 DEN QB 15 14 11 7-4-0 126 271 46.5 1729 12 4.4 6 2.2 56 6.4 6.3 13.7 123.5 72.9 29.91 33 225 4.95 4.85 10.9 5 6 8
Peyton Manning:
Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV
2012*+ 36 DEN QB 18 16 16 13-3-0 400 583 68.6 4659 37 6.3 11 1.9 71 8.0 8.4 11.6 291.2 105.8 84.11 21 137 7.49 7.89 3.5 3 3 15
Who do you honestly think had the better year?
Tim Tebow's Playoff Win:
Rk Year G# Date Age Tm Opp Result GS Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate Y/A AY/A Att Yds Y/A TD TD Pts
1 2011 17 2012-01-08 24-147 DEN PIT W 29-23 * 10 21 47.62% 316 2 0 125.6 15.05 16.95 10 50 5.00 1 1 6
Peyton Manning's Playoff Loss:
Rk Year G# Date Age Tm Opp Result GS Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate Y/A AY/A Att Yds Y/A TD TD Pts
20 2012 17 2013-01-12 36-294 DEN BAL L 35-38 * 28 43 65.12% 290 3 2 88.3 6.74 6.05 1 -1 -1.00 0 0 0
Again, who had the better game?
As of right now I don't think so. I think there's a few guys who will always be regarded as "best of all time". I don't think there's a clear cut winner here.
Perhaps we should nominate between 5 and 10 and have a poll?
Certainly would be more fun than another similar post!?!?!?!? If we could get everyone to nominate three QB's (leaving out Tebow please), limit it to one post each, end the nominations at a certain number of total posts, pick the ten most mentioned QB's and then set up a poll, it might be interesting?
First two I would nominate would be Favre and Marino with Tarkenton an honorable mention. Fran had exactly zero great receivers or running backs for most of his career and still had all the records for yardage, completions and TD's at one time. Fran will also probably not get one vote as number 1.
To me there is only one GOAT in sports, Mohammad Ali. He alone deserves that moniker.
Brady is better. 5 super bowl appearances and one lucky play from going 19-0.
<< <i>It is highly unlikely that Denver will go undefeated this year. Has not happened since 1972. However, even if Denver does go 19-0, I just can not give the title GOAT to Peyton Manning.
To me there is only one GOAT in sports, Mohammad Ali. He alone deserves that moniker. >>
Muhammad Ali might be the guy that most people would agree on as being best of all time, but that's another thread.
<< <i>
Muhammad Ali might be the guy that most people would agree on as being best of all time, but that's another thread. >>
Tyson vs. Ali would be some bout.
<< <i>
<< <i>It is highly unlikely that Denver will go undefeated this year. Has not happened since 1972. However, even if Denver does go 19-0, I just can not give the title GOAT to Peyton Manning.
To me there is only one GOAT in sports, Mohammad Ali. He alone deserves that moniker. >>
Muhammad Ali might be the guy that most people would agree on as being best of all time, but that's another thread. >>
I'm not one of them. Best in his era maybe.
I think he's already one of the greatest.
Let's just say that if he did go 19-0, that it would be fantastic debate.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
<< <i>
<< <i>
Muhammad Ali might be the guy that most people would agree on as being best of all time, but that's another thread. >>
Tyson vs. Ali would be some bout. >>
Tyson is one of the most overrated and one dimensional boxers of all time. Ali (or Foreman or Frazier or Norton or Shavers) could have easily beaten Tyson, who dominated primarily because he faced creampuffs and inferior opponents throughout his career (name one even very good fighter he beat, outside of an aging Larry Holmes). Heck, even Jerry Quarry might have beaten Mike Tyson.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Norton was the only guy who really gave Ali trouble and that was when Muhammad was well past his prime.
Manning on the other hand will go retire as at least the greatest regular season QB of all time. 30 years from now, sabre geeks will say Favre or Brady or maybe even Rodgers were the greatest ever but those will be nerds that never watched any of them play.
<< <i>
Norton was the only guy who really gave Ali trouble and that was when Muhammad was well past his prime. >>
Both Frazier and Norton beat Ali in his prime.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Norton was the only guy who really gave Ali trouble and that was when Muhammad was well past his prime. >>
Both Frazier and Norton beat Ali in his prime. >>
You are correct about Frazier, I should not have overlooked him. Ali has said many times that Frazier was the best he ever fought. He was 2-1 against him so I figured that proved Ali was better. Frazier had the style and ability that gave Ali the most trouble.
In a debate on "best ever" Smokin' Joe falls far short as he didn't have an answer for the big punchers like Foreman who obliterated him.
Norton came along later in Ali's career, If you look at the Ali Norton fights, especially #2 it's obvious a fresh Ali was far superior to Norton. The broken Jaw in the first fight, and Ali even being IN the fight also support that.
<< <i>winning Superbowls matters much more than individual stats. So until Manning is up there at the top, no GOAT from me. >>
According to this idea, Trent Dilfer is a better QB than Dan Marino?
Bob Griese must be better than Dan Fouts?
Sorry, but I've just never subscribed to the theory that somehow team championships can somehow devalue an individual's career. Peyton has already won a super bowl, what you're saying is he hasn't won enough to satisfy you?
How many more rings does Peyton have to win to attain GOAT status?
One week.
Next Sunday Denver and PM play the Raider's on the Black Hole in Oakland.
I supsect that PM will likely have another 2-3 TD passes next Sunday. Oakland is not very good this year and Nick Foals (SP?) torched the Raider's defense with 7 TD passes a few weeks back.
On the other hand, Denver has had trouble playing against the Raiders over the past decade or more (even when Denver is very good and Oakland is very bad). I never assume that Denver will notch a W against any Raider team and thus the game next Sunday is making me nervous. To gain home field advantage in the AFC playoffs Denver must win in Oakland. If Denver stumbles and loses then the Patriots can get home field advantage with a week 17 win. If Denver and New England face off for the AFC Crown I would prefer it be played in Denver instead of Foxborough.
Go Denver, go Manning.
<< <i>51 Td's, has a shot at Bree's single season yardage record.
How many more rings does Peyton have to win to attain GOAT status? >>
One more ring. Unfairly or not, that's how legendary QBs are judged.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Let me put together a small list of icons...
Elvis Presley
Michael Jordan
Jesse Owens
Pele
Babe Ruth
Tiger Woods....although fading due to him not being able to keep his pants on
Ali
Usain Bolt.....I think he's the newest member of all time greats as long as he properly pees in the bottle.
He was very dominant in his era. No one has more rings as a player than him, in any sport that I can recall.
<< <i>
<< <i>51 Td's, has a shot at Bree's single season yardage record.
How many more rings does Peyton have to win to attain GOAT status? >>
One more ring. Unfairly or not, that's how legendary QBs are judged. >>
Grote, you are one of the wisest men on the board. I detest the championship measuring method...but I understand how people view it....and I agree one more puts him up there in most minds.
<< <i>The question was Jordan status???? No athlete can attain Jordan status. He is known by just about every human being on every corner of the planet. Many of todays youth never even watched Michael play, yet will pop out $200 for his shoes in a heartbeat and for a few moments think they are him. Jordan is iconic. Manning is a national star. Many countries could care less about American Football. Manning is the best QB ever...hands down; although I don't see them winning this year. I'm picturing it being about 0 degrees in New York in February.
Let me put together a small list of icons...
Elvis Presley
Michael Jordan
Jesse Owens
Pele
Babe Ruth
Tiger Woods....although fading due to him not being able to keep his pants on
Ali
Usain Bolt.....I think he's the newest member of all time greats as long as he properly pees in the bottle. >>
I like that list and rationale.
Add George Washington to the list for Generals/politicians....he fits in well.
Houdini may have a claim too.
Jesse James for outlaws or notoriety.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>51 Td's, has a shot at Bree's single season yardage record.
How many more rings does Peyton have to win to attain GOAT status? >>
One more ring. Unfairly or not, that's how legendary QBs are judged. >>
Grote, you are one of the wisest men on the board. I detest the championship measuring method...but I understand how people view it....and I agree one more puts him up there in most minds. >>
So what if he repeats an Elway and wins this year and next? Is he the best ever when he has a peer who is one of if not the best ever?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>51 Td's, has a shot at Bree's single season yardage record.
How many more rings does Peyton have to win to attain GOAT status? >>
One more ring. Unfairly or not, that's how legendary QBs are judged. >>
Grote, you are one of the wisest men on the board. I detest the championship measuring method...but I understand how people view it....and I agree one more puts him up there in most minds. >>
So what if he repeats an Elway and wins this year and next? Is he the best ever when he has a peer who is one of if not the best ever? >>
I think the world of Elway. I never felt he had big time receivers, and I like the fact that he was very successful with basically two entirely different teams. He also had the running ability, and he used it so well.
Tough call.
I hope that was a joke. Rice was a great receiver and he has the statistics to back it up. But, lets not forget that he had the luxury of playing with 2 of the greatest QB's of all time. Put him with the QB's that Moss played with or other great WR's and his numbers would not nearly be as impressive. Moss' one season with a great QB (Brady) shows how much a difference a great QB can make.
But to compare Rice with the impact that Ali or Jordan had is a bit ridiculous.
<< <i>The question was Jordan status???? No athlete can attain Jordan status. He is known by just about every human being on every corner of the planet. Many of todays youth never even watched Michael play, yet will pop out $200 for his shoes in a heartbeat and for a few moments think they are him. Jordan is iconic. Manning is a national star. Many countries could care less about American Football. Manning is the best QB ever...hands down; although I don't see them winning this year. I'm picturing it being about 0 degrees in New York in February.
Let me put together a small list of icons...
Elvis Presley
Michael Jordan
Jesse Owens
Pele
Babe Ruth
Tiger Woods....although fading due to him not being able to keep his pants on
Ali
Usain Bolt.....I think he's the newest member of all time greats as long as he properly pees in the bottle. >>
Great post. I don't think I'd rank them in this order, and there are probably a few more soccer players that I would put in there, but on the whole I definitely think this captures it.
<< <i>
<< <i>The question was Jordan status???? No athlete can attain Jordan status. He is known by just about every human being on every corner of the planet. Many of todays youth never even watched Michael play, yet will pop out $200 for his shoes in a heartbeat and for a few moments think they are him. Jordan is iconic. Manning is a national star. Many countries could care less about American Football. Manning is the best QB ever...hands down; although I don't see them winning this year. I'm picturing it being about 0 degrees in New York in February.
Let me put together a small list of icons...
Elvis Presley
Michael Jordan
Jesse Owens
Pele
Babe Ruth
Tiger Woods....although fading due to him not being able to keep his pants on
Ali
Usain Bolt.....I think he's the newest member of all time greats as long as he properly pees in the bottle. >>
Great post. I don't think I'd rank them in this order, and there are probably a few more soccer players that I would put in there, but on the whole I definitely think this captures it. >>
You gotta throw Gretzky in there!
As far as Manning goes in my mind he is probably in the top 3 greatest QB's ever but like others have said needs at least 1 more ring. Its too bad he missed that 1 season because of his neck, I think otherwise he might have beaten Favres yardage record.
<< <i>Jerry Rice is in contention for GOAT with Ali,
I hope that was a joke. Rice was a great receiver and he has the statistics to back it up. But, lets not forget that he had the luxury of playing with 2 of the greatest QB's of all time. Put him with the QB's that Moss played with or other great WR's and his numbers would not nearly be as impressive. Moss' one season with a great QB (Brady) shows how much a difference a great QB can make.
But to compare Rice with the impact that Ali or Jordan had is a bit ridiculous. >>
Always a great debate. What if the Niner QB's didn't have Rice to throw too? Joe Montana may have only won 2 without him. Young doesn't win his without Rice. I'd call him the best receiver in the history of the game and the consumate professional. As far as the greatest athlete of all-time, well, that's a lot of time and with the different sports, it really can't be determined.
Back the the OP's original question......nobody will ever reach the status Jordan has. I can't even begin to measure the accomplishments on and off the field. College National Champion, Olympian, NBA Championships, Dream Team 1 and what made him the icon he is, the marketing campaign with Nike. An entire new hobby was created around Michael Jordan and his line with Nike. So my answer is never, not Manning, not LeBron, nobody.
Or maybe Rice doesn't win any and his statistics are greatly reduced without 2 of the greatest QB's ever throwing to him