BST - went wrong
UNLVino
Posts: 416 ✭
But this is a positive note on how it was turned right! I have done many BST transactions - mostly as a buyer and have had multiple transactions with a few members. All have gone flawlessly - until around August 2nd I made a small gold BST deal, paid and got confirmation number - I come home on August 5th to the "delivery attempt" notice. The next day as I always do I go to USPS and they can't find package - to make a long story short after a week of runaround I found my regular postman was off, the fill in put in the wrong bin and it is lost in the building. I believe the first part, but think whoever found the package in the wrong spot took advantage of opportunity. This is not the sellers fault or problem - USPS lost it!
In looking I found the seller insured the package - was not indicated in listing, nor expected - was less than $500.00. Post office says seller should refund me and do insurance claim - excuse me? How is this the sellers problem again? He did nothing wrong - USPS lost it! I can't expect seller to do this - wouldn't be right. I did reach out to seller and explained USPS needed his involvement to initiate insurance claim - but I do not expect him to have to make me whole if insurance is denied - not his problem but need his help. Seller had to take time out of his day and do the insurance claim. Fast forward to the end of Sept - I get a note: "great news Tim, claim was paid your check is in" I ask seller to please keep a portion for troubles - he won't hear of it! But... He has a nice silver poured bar he was about to list - sends me a pic - beautiful - don't send check, send me that bar! Now I have a nice silver bar - I actually like better than the gold from initial BST - I should actually have nothing but a USPS horror story for the actions of a scumbag working for them!
Because this seller took it upon himself to insure the package, then went above and beyond to help with claim - I am a happy member. Even if he didn't insure it, the experience would not sour my faith in BST - just in USPS! I'll probably post the bar tomorrow. I will let seller out himself if he chooses, although my signature line would be a clue!
Tim
In looking I found the seller insured the package - was not indicated in listing, nor expected - was less than $500.00. Post office says seller should refund me and do insurance claim - excuse me? How is this the sellers problem again? He did nothing wrong - USPS lost it! I can't expect seller to do this - wouldn't be right. I did reach out to seller and explained USPS needed his involvement to initiate insurance claim - but I do not expect him to have to make me whole if insurance is denied - not his problem but need his help. Seller had to take time out of his day and do the insurance claim. Fast forward to the end of Sept - I get a note: "great news Tim, claim was paid your check is in" I ask seller to please keep a portion for troubles - he won't hear of it! But... He has a nice silver poured bar he was about to list - sends me a pic - beautiful - don't send check, send me that bar! Now I have a nice silver bar - I actually like better than the gold from initial BST - I should actually have nothing but a USPS horror story for the actions of a scumbag working for them!
Because this seller took it upon himself to insure the package, then went above and beyond to help with claim - I am a happy member. Even if he didn't insure it, the experience would not sour my faith in BST - just in USPS! I'll probably post the bar tomorrow. I will let seller out himself if he chooses, although my signature line would be a clue!
Tim
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bob
I like to always work under the agreement that merchandise belongs to seller until proof of delivery. This makes it in the seller's best interest to insure to protect himself. Since we know USPS can easily say "delivered" when in fact not delivered with delivery confrimation, I prefer the extra buck or two to include signature confirmation. High dollar amounts that go registered mail will always require a signature.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
mrpotatohead pointed it out here over 4 years ago in this thread
If you send a package that has bullion in it, and it is lost, or the package is damaged and all the contents are not in the package, neither the seller or the buyer have any recourse but to file police report (which will be laughed at, but taken as a case). If the buyer & seller cannot work something out, the next action would be for the buyer to sue the seller (which will be laughed at, but taken as a case).
One could get the Postmaster involved too, but how far do really think that would get?
Possibly, after a very lenghty investigation, a postal crook could be caught, and that does happen from time to time...but where does that leave the original buyer and seller? All that does is show there was a crook, the buyer and seller cannot be made whole just because a crook was caught.
The only way to have any piece of mind sending bullion currently is to send it Registered. I admit, I could be wrong about some of this, I'm stating what I have known to be the case 4+ years now, and am not aware of any new policies.
Glad to hear this particular transaction worked out in the end, but I am very curious that the P.O. paid on a claim of a lost bullion package if in fact the P.O. knew that bullion was in the package. I would like to know more details about that if possible.
The seller and buyer would almost have to work out with one another and "agree" to say that something other than bullion was in the lost package. I am in no way suggesting that was the case in this case...again, in NO way suggesting that, BUT that would be one way to receive a claim. And I would suggest NOT to do that because both parties would do time in the clink if ever caught given those circumstances.
Also i learned a few weeks later that my regular mail person was on vacation at that time and the lady postal worker who delivered at that particular week already transferred to another facility.Hmmmm just made me think why she transferred.
Now all 3 of my packages have signature delivery confirmation on them but were not insured as i was confident from previous experience that i will receive them ...But not this time... I already escalated the matter up to the highest level which is the Vice President of Consumer Affairs in Washington D.C. which they promptly put pressure on my local post office because the supervisor started to become cooperative but up to know it still has not been resolved and its been 3 months already. I will call her again tomorrow and find out how i can get reimbursed since they lost my packages after it reached the local post office. Oh wait are they Shut Down as well?
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I have been working in co-operation with a postal investigator for roughly a year now. He has had me sending packages that obviously have coins and/or precious metal, all very cheap stuff and all property of the postal service, I've only actullay seen the contents a couple times, but it is obvious enough to know that what is in the package if shaken a little.
Since these 2 employees have left my P.O., he has told me that "lost" packages have significantly diminished. He's even had me send a package from where the one who transferred now works a few times when he knew that employee was on-duty at the time of the package being accepted. Not a single one that I've mailed from that P.O. has not made it to it's destination, so he is leaning towards the one who retired being the problem now. He is considering, while gathering more info., to slap a search warrant on that retired postal employees residence and if any items that have been described to have gone missing turn up in that persons home...well, you can figure it out from there.
It's been kind of cool helping this investigator, and for so long now. I know he's using me as a tool, but I don't care. It doesn't take up hardly any of my time because he will call to meet to send another "tempting" package and I just mail it with packages I am legitedly mailing myself. Kind of
Postal workers, especially the counter clerks get know you and you may have slipped one time letting them know there's a load of precious metals in the package, and that's all it takes. That's why he contacted me, because every claim I filed involved precious metals and the workers at my P.O. know mostly what I am sending thru their Office when it's in a "certain" type of package.
And NO, he's not a drug trafficer using me to mail drugs. I was suspicious of that when he first contatced me to be a part of this ongoing investigation, but I was shown a ton of credentials and assured by the Mgr. of my P.O. that he is what he said he is.
Has anyone else experienced that at their P.O.?
FWIW.... In my personal opinion it's not worth the aggravation, hassle and disappointment to send anything that is not easily replaced, or of minimal monetary value, any other way than Registered Mail if your going to use the U.S.P.O. Yes it costs more, but what are we talking about $20 ~30 bucks? If the two parties can agree to split the postage then we are only talking about $10 or $15 dollars. $15 for hassle free shipping = no brainer.
Also when I package an object I will bubble wrap it and attach a slip of paper with the address of the recipient around the object. I then double box that object placing it in a smaller box that I again address and securely tape down inside of a larger box so it doesn't shift around. Finally I very securely tape all seams of the outside box. I figure in that way... (1) By using the larger sized outside box it should make it harder to loose than a small priority mail box. (2) Should the outside box get crushed or torn open the shipping contents would still be sealed inside the small inner box which would have the address on it. In this way the contents are contained and out of sight. Of course all of this means little in the case of a thief but it could help in cases were its just a plain old accident.
Yes, I realize I'm a bit anal too.
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Yes the USPO does have, just as any carrier service does have a few bad apples. That being said I believe the USPO is still the best and cheapest for folks to use.
Yes I am proud to say that I'm a retire letter carrier, 99.9% of the folks I worked with took pride in their work and getting packages to where they belonged, even when the address was a complete mess.
Nick
JohnnyCache NAILS it!!!
If the 2 parties can't agree to split the shipping of a valuable (which is a relative word to some) package, then the deal may not be worth doing.
Sell items at current market prices and additional postage charge is not a issue.
<< <i>Unless policy has changed recently, unless you are mailing something Registered valued over $25,000, you do not need to purchase insure as well.
Registered mail cares an automatic $25,000 insurance policy on it.
Yes the USPO does have, just as any carrier service does have a few bad apples. That being said I believe the USPO is still the best and cheapest for folks to use.
Yes I am proud to say that I'm a retire letter carrier, 99.9% of the folks I worked with took pride in their work and getting packages to where they belonged, even when the address was a complete mess.
Nick >>
Is the statement in bold something new? I've always had to purchase insurance on registered mail. This automatic insurance isn't the case according to their website: USPS - Registered Mail Facts
Use this postage price calculator and click on Registered and enter $1 as how much you want the Registered package to be insured for.
You will see that your Priority package being sent Registered would be a minimum of $17.85 to send.
Now put in $5000 as the Insurance amount on this Priority boxed Registered mail package, the package will cost you $27.00 to send.
Now put in $25000 as the Insurance amount on this Priority boxed Registered mail package, the package will cost you $56.00 to send.
Now put in $25001 as the Insurance amount on this Priority boxed Registered mail package, the package will cost you $57.45 to send.
Apparently, according to this calculator, you could send a Priority boxed Registered mail package for even more than $25000. You just start paying another $1.45 per $100 of addtional Insurance BUT the Registered part of the purchase only covers up to $25000, Anything above that would have be to a seperate claim if the package turns up mia.
Understand? Good...now I can eat my Raisan Bran Crunch.
Sell items at current market prices and additional postage charge is not a issue
It is an issue, here's why. In this day of eBay rules, eBay has brainwashed people into thinking that if you are buying something, the shipping should be free. Amazon plays a part in tis too, but PM related, it's more eBay.
I have experimented this theory.
Offer an item at "current market price" with free shipping and you get bites and usually will easily sell the item.
Now offer an item, still at fair market price, but charge even just half of what the shipping will actually end up being, guess what? You dont get nearly as many bites.
eBay has brainwashed people into thinking it doesn't cost anything to ship, so my theory by trial concludes, it still is an issue. People, or I should say...LESS people will do a deal if the price asked is at current market price, but a little $5 charge for shipping is asked. It's amazing! $5 extra on a current market price will hold more people back from doing the deal just because of the fact you're charging for shipping.
So now you say, factor the shipping cost into the offering of the item. Now you get people saying, that's not current market price. I reply with, it is...I've just factored in only a portion of what it will actually cost me to send it to you...never hear from them again.
I'm telling you this is the way it is now, I've tested it.
I feel (personal feeling here now) that just because I am offering an item via the internet ( no matter where it be) that I should have to pay all of the shipping. A package may end up costing me $18 to send, and I'm only asking $5, and that's a deal breaker to them??? Then I'd rather not do business with them either if they are that moranic and cheap over $5 when the actual item is at current market price and can be proven by refering to completed listings.
Darn it...now my Raisan Bran has gone soggy.
USPS never asked me what was in package - I assumed they paid claim as there was no question it wen missing in their care - a quote from the supervisor I spoke to "we know it is in this building"
This was first event of missing package - don't blame carrier but I do believe whomever pulls boxes from bins saw opportunity of insured package (something good) in wrong place.
As the buyer - I didn't request insurance, seller only advertised "shipping included" - so he just did a good thing on his own at his expense
Point of the whole post was a shout out to an A+++ seller, great person and all around good guy!
Instead of a piece if gold I now have a beautiful 250g silver bar!
The only negative is some dirtbag has a free piece of gold, but I hope that gold now brings the thief misery and bad luck - but no ill will to any unsuspecting buyers of it.
BST is and will continue to be one of my favorite places to get additions to the stack!
Is it a bar that is still in production? I really liked the size and shape.
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I got the point you were making UNLV and am glad it worked out.
I also apologize for kind of taking the thread in a sorted and questioned manner, but that's where threads can go sometimes. I hope some knowledge can be learned from a thread like this. take care and you're a good man for sharing this with us.
edit:
Oh, the main thing I wanted to say was, karma is a you know what and I hope that she is heading that b-tirds way
<< <i>Speaking of that beautiful silver bar, I couldn't make out who the refiner/producer was from the pictures.
Is it a bar that is still in production? I really liked the size and shape. >>
It is an Argor Heraeus - from Switzerland - I too like it much better than the gold I lost
Edit - no issues Pieces!
I'd agree that using registered is safest.
If not using registered, use a bigger box and a huge label glued on and taped over.
The reason is that whoever took it in the facility probably had 2 choices, either pocket it which is hard with a bigger box. Or they might have a ready made small shipping label in their palm and slap it over the label so it gets re-routed to their buddies house then they toss it in an outgoing bin. It's a lot harder for someone to cover a big label. Like any theft prevention, if your thing is tougher or more risky they're more likely to let it go and they'll go after an easier victim/package.
All very good advice. How's the saying go...if you want to catch a crook, you have to think like one.