Need a T$1 specialist assistance...

phnatacc

On the 1876 is the die line in the 7 of the date a positive marker for the proof issue? I went over as many images of certified MS & PR issues as I could find and it seems to only appear on the proof strikes.

TIA for any information.

MilkmanDan

Which of the obverses are you referring to? I know of at least 4 obverse dies for 76. Can you post of close-up of the 7 so we know which die marker you are referring to?

crypto79

<< <i>On the 1876 is the die line in the 7 of the date a positive marker for the proof issue? I went over as many images of certified MS & PR issues as I could find and it seems to only appear on the proof strikes.

TIA for any information. >>



Also due to the centennial the 76 was a very high mintage year for proof with many die pairs, coupled with that most of the proof dies were sent over into normal production, most of the proof dies are found with business strike examples as well. If you can't do pictures just copy and past a link to one of the HA coins that has what you are talking about and we will check it out.

phnatacc

The coin is off to the service, so these are coinfacts images. This coin was a Type 1 obverse, which to the best of my knowledge was the only obverse used to strike the proof - but my knowledge is limited to Breen and what I've dug up through auction archives so far.

AUandAG

Since you have already sent it in for grading, I think you will get the specialist that you need.

PCGS and NGC do know their coins.

bob

Placid

<< <i>The coin is off to the service >>



Did you submit it as a proof?

MilkmanDan

<< <i>Since you have already sent it in for grading, I think you will get the specialist that you need.

PCGS and NGC do know their coins.
>>



I don't disagree with your statement but keep in mind the '76 trade dollar ranks up there with one of the most confusing dates of any us coin when it comes to BS vs. Proof. I have a few examples that are real head scratchers. Completely prooflike appearance with highly mirrored surfaces, but then rounded edges with incomplete reeds. Another with prooflike strike and mirrored surfaces, but a planchet flaw. PCGS has called a few examples proofs that are very weekly struck. We know that the dies were multi-purposed for both business strikes and proofs, and it's obvious from the evidence there was a lot of what I'll call experimentation that year with many different obv/rev die and hub combos. It's my favorite year and I love to study the coins, but they sure can be frustrating too. PCGS knows their coins but some are so hard even the specialists have a hard time and end up shrugging their shoulders.

crypto79

<< <i>The coin is off to the service, so these are coinfacts images. This coin was a Type 1 obverse, which to the best of my knowledge was the only obverse used to strike the proof - but my knowledge is limited to Breen and what I've dug up through auction archives so far.


>>



Type One obverse accounts for 99.99% of all business strikes and about 90% of proof strikes. That said I haven't noticed that mark before on business strikes before so I assume it might be proof and the look of the coin leans towards PF. I assume the Rev is a type 2 (no berry)

tradedollarnut

phnatacc

<< <i>Type One obverse accounts for 99.99% of all business strikes and about 90% of proof strikes. That said I haven't noticed that mark before on business strikes before so I assume it might be proof and the look of the coin leans towards PF. I assume the Rev is a type 2 (no berry) >>



Yeah, as stated, the image supplied is from coinfacts as I didn't photograph mine before it went.

I was really just interested in learning if it was a "known quantity" by those in-the-know. Judging by the responses, it is not. But, fortunately, it wasn't a completely asinine trail to have followed either.

crypto79

<< <i> >>



If that is your coin it is clearly a Proof and very high quality. No doubt in my mind. That said I would have to see yours and take into account the fabric of the coin, see how the eagle is in relief and the low point in the detail (like where the feathers meet the fields) are mirrored, This is the low point on the coin correlates to the high point on the die and is highly polished and struck over already polished planchets where a UNC coin is often textured in this area.

MilkmanDan

I think the OP said this was just a coinfacts pic he was using because his is off to grading.

yosclimber

<< <i>This coin was a Type 1 obverse, which to the best of my knowledge was the only obverse used to strike the proof - but my knowledge is limited to Breen and what I've dug up through auction archives so far. >>


Check out stealer's research thread on 1876 Type 2/2 - there were 1876 proofs with the Type 2 obverse.
He has images of one of them. And images of the same die used for business strikes, as crypto79 and Original Dan mentioned.
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=876354

Also, more recent than Breen's Encyclopedia of US and Colonial Coins and more comprehensive than the 1876 2/2 study is:
Silver Dollars & Trade Dollars of the United States - A Complete Encyclopedia by Q. David Bowers (1993).
It is available free online:
http://www.pcgs.com/books/silver-dollars/
However, there is a nicer index to the info by year and mintmark on tradedollarnut's site:
http://www.tradedollarnut.com/
In particular, the 1876 proof page is:
http://www.tradedollarnut.com/Home%20Page/Home%20first%20links/Dates/1876/1876%20Proof.htm
And you can see the listing for the Type 2/2 there.