Identify this 1821 Constitution Wealth And Independence medal?

jonathanb

I bought this as an American medal, supposedly related to the New York Constitution of 1821, which apparently was a thing even though I've never heard of it. I had my doubts that this was related, but I thought I'd figure it out once I had the medal in hand.

Now that I have it in hand, I still have the same vague doubts, and I haven't made any more progress on identifying it. 45 mm, plain edge, no signatures.

Does this ring a bell with anyone? How about coming up with good candidates for the two churches?

magikbilly

Not so sure NY.
I would look into what she is standing on. Justice (?) is blind and standing on a compass point and/or ships wheel; she is dispersing currency in two directions (thus two "entities" I think are involved). The cathedrals may represent the two locations or two of some other thing joining in a commerce way perhaps because of or with travel. My quick .02.

Eric

Edit - She is also in the clouds. There is much more symbolism I am missing. That's Justice and La Fortuna I think with that cornucopia. No wings, but she is in the clouds. The answers are there if the designer was good. I see La Fortuna sometimes rendered with that compass thing as well, which is not a compass thing in the old images, but may well be here. Like most religious symbols, it is just borrowed and reworked Dike=Justicia=La Fortuna. Something like that. I think the body is the scales here. Who would choose this and why? Where's the sword? Fate, Luck, Vengeance, lots going on here...and, as in my Diana painting, or the Virgin Mary for that matter, all back to Isis.

Multi edits but last just for spelling.

Sonorandesertrat

Jonathan,
The medal is likely British. The church on the left is almost certainly St. Paul's Cathedral, and the one on the right looks (to me) like Westminster Abbey.

Walther

MrScience

I could be way off here, but the cathedrals look like stylized representations of Le Sacre-Coeur and Notre Dame in Paris.

magikbilly

<< <i>I could be way off here, but the cathedrals look like stylized representations of Le Sacre-Coeur and Notre Dame in Paris. >>




Thank you. I am still on the Obv. Anything between those places in 1821? Not sure those are the right - well, the first perhaps. But yes, we need more eyes in this thread!

Eric

Sonorandesertrat

The Sacre-Coeur didn't exist in 1821.

MrScience

<< <i>The Sacre-Coeur didn't exist in 1821. >>

Well, that would rule out that guess!

The London cathedral suggestion is compelling....

magikbilly

Two locations... That could indeed be London Cathedral - I like this suggestion. Anyone with a feel for where this was made? What would/could we be doing over here that would be reflected..heck, refracted, into this design that would involve Fortuna/et all and a compass/ships wheel...?

More eyes!!

Eric

Edit - Please don't maroon me in the sky with what's her name! Looking into other meanings for "Constitution" etc. Could something have changed when Napoleon died in 1821?

JohnHarper

This is listed in "British Historical Medals" as #1169. The buildings are St. Paul's Cathedral and Westminister Hall.

magikbilly

<< <i>This is listed in "British Historical Medals" as #1169. The buildings are St. Paul's Cathedral and Westminister Hall. >>



That all they say??

Eric

Edit - I did not see Sonorandesertrat's smart responses at first

coindeuce

The reign of George III came to an end in 1820, with the period of Reform generally accepted as having progressed from 1815 to 1837 (after passage of the Reform Bill of 1832). The medal was likely a partisan statement carried by advocates of Reform prior to passage of the Bill..

Broadstruck

Is she riding a unicycle in the clouds blindfolded

jonathanb

Cool, thanks for the excellent responses. Not what I was hoping to hear, of course, but I'd rather know than not!

magikbilly

<< <i>Is she riding a unicycle in the clouds blindfolded >>



Now that is symbolism
I missed that!

Can Coindeuce retrofit the information he provided into the coin design and symbols? I surely can't.

Eric

Sonorandesertrat

"The medal was likely a partisan statement carried by advocates of Reform prior to passage of the Bill."

I agree. Looking at the phrase THE CONSTITUTION set above two prominent symbols of the Anglican Church (Church of England), I interpret this to refer to the fact that non-members of the Church of England could not hold high political office (e.g., become members of the English Parliament) prior to the Reforms, and the medal's sponsor(s) wanted to see a change. I think that the other side refers to the problem of the 'rotten boroughs'---wealthy individuals sometimes were able to bribe voters in sparsely populated boroughs and gain political power as a result. This issue was also addressed by the Reforms.

Where was the medal produced? Not the Royal Mint.