I want those quarters! Maybe a Lotto ticket will change things...
Persuing choice countermarked coinage on 2 reales.
Enjoyed numismatic conversations with Eric P. Newman, Dave Akers, Jules Reiver, David Davis, Russ Logan, John McCloskey, Kirk Gorman, W. David Perkins...
I sure hope they don't insist on selling every coin at a floor session. No reason we should have to spend an extra day in NYC to bid on circ 3 Cent Nickels, etc.
And on a less selfish note, mixing the junk with the gems seems to cheapen the greatness the collection. Makes it seem more like a random assortment, rather than the masterfully assembled collection that it truly is.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>.....less selfish note, mixing the junk with the gems seems to cheapen the greatness the collection. Makes it seem more like a random assortment, rather than the masterfully assembled collection that it truly is. >>
This is the "purity of a numismatist", in my eyes. Some things are elevated to the Nth degree, but even the masters collect "stuff".
<< <i>.....less selfish note, mixing the junk with the gems seems to cheapen the greatness the collection. Makes it seem more like a random assortment, rather than the masterfully assembled collection that it truly is. >>
This is the "purity of a numismatist", in my eyes. Some things are elevated to the Nth degree, but even the masters collect "stuff". >>
And that stuff being mixed in might bring more $ because of it being presented along with the great stuff!
<< <i>I sure hope they don't insist on selling every coin at a floor session. No reason we should have to spend an extra day in NYC to bid on circ 3 Cent Nickels, etc.
And on a less selfish note, mixing the junk with the gems seems to cheapen the greatness the collection. Makes it seem more like a random assortment, rather than the masterfully assembled collection that it truly is. >>
The floor session only appears to cover the higher grade/higher value items. For example, only the proof buffalo nickels and a couple high grade MS examples are part of the floor bidding, while 50+ others appear to be internet only.
"It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson
There are many of the lower graded Newman coins that I would like to own. Problem is that darn NGC holder. I pretty much gave up crossing over to PCGS a few years ago, and I would prefer owning only PCGS coins.
You might be interested in checking to see the percentage of Newman coins receiving the CAC sticker. Maybe CAC was running short on stickers.
I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
This is the "purity of a numismatist", in my eyes. Some things are elevated to the Nth degree, but even the masters collect "stuff".
I think it's mostly a matter of style. EPN clearly didn't worry too much about having low end "stuff" lying around. I'm just the opposite. If I have something that doesn't meet my standards, I can't wait to sell it off. I will add that my style has served me well, and EPN's has served him well. After all, I'm sure that if I had been in EPN's shoes, I would have sold off many coins decades too soon, for pennies on the dollar compared to today's prices.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
"And on a less selfish note, mixing the junk with the gems seems to cheapen the greatness the collection. Makes it seem more like a random assortment, rather than the masterfully assembled collection that it truly is."
I agree Andy. No reason to put them in with the uber gems. It does make it look mishmashed and takes away from the breathlessness of the gems. It is almost like a bipolar collection the way it is displayed.
That is NOT to say that I wouldn't want some of the lower graded stuff that is up to standards. You mentioned above that you can't wait to sell something that doesn't meet your standards, but I know that doesn't mean grade wise...it just means standards at whatever grade level a coin is at. Subtle, but important point...and meant to discourage the elitist tomatoes that people were loading into their launchers.
You mentioned above that you can't wait to sell something that doesn't meet your standards, but I know that doesn't mean grade wise...it just means standards at whatever grade level a coin is at.
Not exactly. To "meet my standards" (as a collector) a coin must be among the finest known, or so rare that I may not get a chance at a better one. The grade on the slab has nothing to do with it. That said, if I think a coin is overgraded, there's a good chance that the price will get in the way of a deal. In other words, you will see no circulated 3C Nickels in my collection, even if they're PQ for the grade.
Obviously, things are different when wearing the dealer hat, but that's not what we've been talking about.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
MrEureka: <<. EPN clearly didn't worry too much about having low end "stuff" lying around>>
As there are such a large number of coins in this offering, it is not fair for some of the participants in this thread, though not Mr. Eureka, to emphasize that not every Newman coin is great. Not every coin in the Eliasberg Collection was great and that is the all-tine greatest collection of U.S. coins.
I have already written about Newman's Draped Bust Quarters, perhaps the best group of these ever to be offered at auction.
Not exactly. To "meet my standards" (as a collector) a coin must be among the finest known, or so rare that I may not get a chance at a better one. The grade on the slab has nothing to do with it. That said, if I think a coin is overgraded, there's a good chance that the price will get in the way of a deal. In other words, you will see no circulated 3C Nickels in my collection, even if they're PQ for the grade. >>
just the mention of Reiver is enough to set the room 10 degrees cooler
bidders had better inspect in hand and know how to grade >>
Not having looked at any of the coins in the collection yet, I wonder why all the attack on NGC that they overgraded many coins because the lack of CAC stickers. I believe it was pointed out that many of the coins were originally dipped and then toned while in the albums or whatever EPN kept them in. The coins could easily be the right grade that it says on the holder- just not PQ enough or original enough for John to sticker.
There are plenty of PCGS coins out there that though they are accurately graded will not sticker. Heck, even if they downgrade many wont sticker as the eye appeal/originality just does not make the CAC cut.
The CAC sticker is an opinionated set of eyes that claim in CAC's eyes the coin is PQ for the grade. All non stickered coins just mean CAC did not feel were up to their standards, but that does not mean they are not up to pcgs..
Edit to rephrase: If sent to PCGS for cross at any grade, will they keep the Newman or Green pedigree on the label? If so, I might take a stab at a few.
<< <i>Edit to rephrase: If sent to PCGS for cross at any grade, will they keep the Newman or Green pedigree on the label? If so, I might take a stab at a few. >>
It is very easy and simple to cross a pedigree of this sort. PCGS Customer Service can give you specific instructions
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
Lava: <<underwhelmed by the selection up for sale ...>>
This is is a ridiculous statement. The "selection" coming up for sale features a large portion of the best coins in one of the all-time best collections of bust silver conis.
For example, as I explained in my recent article. Newman probably has the best collection of Draped Bust Quarters that has ever been offered at auction, better than Eliasberg's Draped Bust Quarters. For Draped Bust Quarters, these are absolutely fabulous.
Though I have not yet seen all of Newman's Capped Bust Quarters, several of the ones that I have seen are incredible. There are some stunning Capped Bust Quarters in this sale, including a few that may be the first or second finest known for their respective dates. Also, consider the importance of the Proof 1818!
Lava: <<NGC also going to be under scrutiny>>
In every sale, I find coins that are overgraded. In regard to the highlights that I have personally examined so far, NGC did a good job with the Newman coins. Perhaps Lava may mention some specific coins that he has personally seen. This does not seem to be a well reasoned statement.
Lava: <<just the mention of Reiver is enough to set the room 10 degrees cooler
NGC graders did a better job with the Newman coins than they did with the Reiver coins. Moreover, this is not a sensible comparison and is very misleading. Newman coins are known for their quality, eye appeal and relative originality; Reiver sought rare die varieties and was minimally concerned with quality.
Lava: <<bidders had better inspect in hand and know how to grade
At any major sale, it is a good idea for each bidder to hire a sharp numismatist who is not affiliated with an auction company. The Newman coins, however, are more fairly graded than coins in many other major sales. In the current context, this is an unfair statement.
JoeBB21: << I believe it was pointed out that many of the coins were originally dipped and then toned while in the albums or whatever EPN kept them in.>>
The holders in which they were stored are discussed in my recent article.
JoeBB21:<<There are plenty of PCGS coins out there that though they are accurately graded will not sticker.>>
True, but other statements about CAC in the same paragraph are not accurate.
JoeBB21: << The coins could easily be the right grade that it says on the holder- just not PQ enough or original enough for John to sticker.
Uncirculated or Proof coins do not have to be all that original to sticker; plenty of very apparently dipped coins have received CAC stickers. The fact that my research indicates that almost all sophisticated collectors shun very apparently dipped coins is beside this point.
JoeBB21: <<The CAC sticker is an opinionated set of eyes that claim in CAC's eyes the coin is PQ for the grade. .>>
This statement is not accurate. First, JA is not the only grader at the CAC. There are two others. Secondly, the CAC divides coins into four categories, here in my words: High, Middle, Low and problem. Those in the High and Middle categories sticker. So, the CAC is not only stickering High End coins; the CAC is stickering coins that are not PQ as well, those in the middle of the range indicated by the already certified grade.
"In order to understand the scarce coins that you own or see, you must learn about coins that you cannot afford." -Me
tradedollarnut
Posts: 20,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
Edit: maybe a bit harsh. Has anyone seen these in person that wouldn't mind sharing if the pictures match the coins?
I want those quarters! Maybe a Lotto ticket will change things...
Enjoyed numismatic conversations with Eric P. Newman, Dave Akers, Jules Reiver, David Davis, Russ Logan, John McCloskey, Kirk Gorman, W. David Perkins...
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<< <i>The inserts are surprisingly pleasing to the eye. >>
I think they did a great job with them.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
LINK
<< <i>Is it just me or do all the Trade Dollars look like they were pulled from a swamp? Maybe bad photography?
Edit: maybe a bit harsh. Has anyone seen these in person that wouldn't mind sharing if the pictures match the coins? >>
The only one I have seen in person was the 1877-S. It looked ok - somewhat similar to that 1878-S that I have passed on many times.
And on a less selfish note, mixing the junk with the gems seems to cheapen the greatness the collection. Makes it seem more like a random assortment, rather than the masterfully assembled collection that it truly is.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>.....less selfish note, mixing the junk with the gems seems to cheapen the greatness the collection. Makes it seem more like a random assortment, rather than the masterfully assembled collection that it truly is. >>
This is the "purity of a numismatist", in my eyes. Some things are elevated to the Nth degree, but even the masters collect "stuff".
<< <i>
<< <i>.....less selfish note, mixing the junk with the gems seems to cheapen the greatness the collection. Makes it seem more like a random assortment, rather than the masterfully assembled collection that it truly is. >>
This is the "purity of a numismatist", in my eyes. Some things are elevated to the Nth degree, but even the masters collect "stuff". >>
And that stuff being mixed in might bring more $ because of it being presented along with the great stuff!
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
<< <i>I sure hope they don't insist on selling every coin at a floor session. No reason we should have to spend an extra day in NYC to bid on circ 3 Cent Nickels, etc.
And on a less selfish note, mixing the junk with the gems seems to cheapen the greatness the collection. Makes it seem more like a random assortment, rather than the masterfully assembled collection that it truly is. >>
The floor session only appears to cover the higher grade/higher value items. For example, only the proof buffalo nickels and a couple high grade MS examples are part of the floor bidding, while 50+ others appear to be internet only.
Most grades seem ok, but this is reminding me of the Reiver Sale where NGC did the same thing and over-graded so many of his coins!
<< <i>No bust halves? >>
Just this lowly example LINK
JH
Proof Buffalo Registry Set
Capped Bust Quarters Registry Set
Proof Walking Liberty Halves Registry Set
<< <i>Ah, to be able to afford MS (or Proof) bust quarters...
JH >>
I know, RIGHT!?!
<< <i>I hate looking at coins in my series of interest and seeing blatantly over-graded coins!
Most grades seem ok, but this is reminding me of the Reiver Sale where NGC did the same thing and over-graded so many of his coins! >>
I thought the same thing, too bad he didn't go with PCGS! (I should be on a PCGS commercial!)
You might be interested in checking to see the percentage of Newman coins receiving the CAC sticker. Maybe CAC was running short on stickers.
<< <i>I hate looking at coins in my series of interest and seeing blatantly over-graded coins!
+1
They're nice looking but there are quite a few with more than acceptable field marks for the grade.
I think it's mostly a matter of style. EPN clearly didn't worry too much about having low end "stuff" lying around. I'm just the opposite. If I have something that doesn't meet my standards, I can't wait to sell it off. I will add that my style has served me well, and EPN's has served him well. After all, I'm sure that if I had been in EPN's shoes, I would have sold off many coins decades too soon, for pennies on the dollar compared to today's prices.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
But on the bright side, I'm sure a lot of money will be made crossing the right coins to PCGS after the sale.
Also, the couple of Gold CAC stickers mixed in are interesting.
But aside from all that, what a wonderful collection! And, IMO, the Heritage presentation looks top notch.
I agree Andy. No reason to put them in with the uber gems. It does make it look mishmashed and takes away from the breathlessness of the gems. It is almost like a bipolar collection the way it is displayed.
That is NOT to say that I wouldn't want some of the lower graded stuff that is up to standards. You mentioned above that you can't wait to sell something that doesn't meet your standards, but I know that doesn't mean grade wise...it just means standards at whatever grade level a coin is at. Subtle, but important point...and meant to discourage the elitist tomatoes that people were loading into their launchers.
siliconvalleycoins.com
Not exactly. To "meet my standards" (as a collector) a coin must be among the finest known, or so rare that I may not get a chance at a better one. The grade on the slab has nothing to do with it. That said, if I think a coin is overgraded, there's a good chance that the price will get in the way of a deal. In other words, you will see no circulated 3C Nickels in my collection, even if they're PQ for the grade.
Obviously, things are different when wearing the dealer hat, but that's not what we've been talking about.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
siliconvalleycoins.com
MrEureka: <<. EPN clearly didn't worry too much about having low end "stuff" lying around>>
As there are such a large number of coins in this offering, it is not fair for some of the participants in this thread, though not Mr. Eureka, to emphasize that not every Newman coin is great. Not every coin in the Eliasberg Collection was great and that is the all-tine greatest collection of U.S. coins.
I have already written about Newman's Draped Bust Quarters, perhaps the best group of these ever to be offered at auction.
The Fabulous Eric Newman Coin Collection, part 3: Draped Bust Quarters
<< <i>
Not exactly. To "meet my standards" (as a collector) a coin must be among the finest known, or so rare that I may not get a chance at a better one. The grade on the slab has nothing to do with it. That said, if I think a coin is overgraded, there's a good chance that the price will get in the way of a deal. In other words, you will see no circulated 3C Nickels in my collection, even if they're PQ for the grade. >>
NGC also going to be under scrutiny
just the mention of Reiver is enough to set the room 10 degrees cooler
bidders had better inspect in hand and know how to grade
<< <i>underwhelmed by the selection up for sale
NGC also going to be under scrutiny
just the mention of Reiver is enough to set the room 10 degrees cooler
bidders had better inspect in hand and know how to grade >>
Not having looked at any of the coins in the collection yet, I wonder why all the attack on NGC that they overgraded many coins because the lack of CAC stickers.
I believe it was pointed out that many of the coins were originally dipped and then toned while in the albums or whatever EPN kept them in. The coins could easily be the right grade that it says on the holder- just not PQ enough or original enough for John to sticker.
There are plenty of PCGS coins out there that though they are accurately graded will not sticker. Heck, even if they downgrade many wont sticker as the eye appeal/originality just does not make the CAC cut.
The CAC sticker is an opinionated set of eyes that claim in CAC's eyes the coin is PQ for the grade. All non stickered coins just mean CAC did not feel were up to their standards, but that does not mean they are not up to pcgs..
If sent to PCGS for cross at any grade, will they keep the Newman or Green pedigree on the label? If so, I might take a stab at a few.
<< <i>I hate looking at coins in my series of interest and seeing blatantly over-graded coins!
Most grades seem ok, but this is reminding me of the Reiver Sale where NGC did the same thing and over-graded so many of his coins! >>
this.
my thoughts exactly as I was viewing the listings at HA.com
many will be buried, all in an effort to win smoething.
<< <i>Edit to rephrase:
If sent to PCGS for cross at any grade, will they keep the Newman or Green pedigree on the label? If so, I might take a stab at a few. >>
It is very easy and simple to cross a pedigree of this sort. PCGS Customer Service can give you specific instructions
Lava: <<underwhelmed by the selection up for sale ...>>
This is is a ridiculous statement. The "selection" coming up for sale features a large portion of the best coins in one of the all-time best collections of bust silver conis.
For example, as I explained in my recent article. Newman probably has the best collection of Draped Bust Quarters that has ever been offered at auction, better than Eliasberg's Draped Bust Quarters. For Draped Bust Quarters, these are absolutely fabulous.
The Fabulous Eric Newman Coin Collection, part 3: Draped Bust Quarters
Though I have not yet seen all of Newman's Capped Bust Quarters, several of the ones that I have seen are incredible. There are some stunning Capped Bust Quarters in this sale, including a few that may be the first or second finest known for their respective dates. Also, consider the importance of the Proof 1818!
Lava: <<NGC also going to be under scrutiny>>
In every sale, I find coins that are overgraded. In regard to the highlights that I have personally examined so far, NGC did a good job with the Newman coins. Perhaps Lava may mention some specific coins that he has personally seen. This does not seem to be a well reasoned statement.
Lava: <<just the mention of Reiver is enough to set the room 10 degrees cooler
NGC graders did a better job with the Newman coins than they did with the Reiver coins. Moreover, this is not a sensible comparison and is very misleading. Newman coins are known for their quality, eye appeal and relative originality; Reiver sought rare die varieties and was minimally concerned with quality.
Lava: <<bidders had better inspect in hand and know how to grade
At any major sale, it is a good idea for each bidder to hire a sharp numismatist who is not affiliated with an auction company. The Newman coins, however, are more fairly graded than coins in many other major sales. In the current context, this is an unfair statement.
JoeBB21: << I believe it was pointed out that many of the coins were originally dipped and then toned while in the albums or whatever EPN kept them in.>>
The holders in which they were stored are discussed in my recent article.
The Fabulous Eric Newman Coin Collection, part 3: Draped Bust Quarters
JoeBB21:<<There are plenty of PCGS coins out there that though they are accurately graded will not sticker.>>
True, but other statements about CAC in the same paragraph are not accurate.
JoeBB21: << The coins could easily be the right grade that it says on the holder- just not PQ enough or original enough for John to sticker.
Uncirculated or Proof coins do not have to be all that original to sticker; plenty of very apparently dipped coins have received CAC stickers. The fact that my research indicates that almost all sophisticated collectors shun very apparently dipped coins is beside this point.
Understanding Classic U.S. Coins and Building Excellent Coin Collections, Part 2: Dipped Coins
JoeBB21: <<The CAC sticker is an opinionated set of eyes that claim in CAC's eyes the coin is PQ for the grade. .>>
This statement is not accurate. First, JA is not the only grader at the CAC. There are two others. Secondly, the CAC divides coins into four categories, here in my words: High, Middle, Low and problem. Those in the High and Middle categories sticker. So, the CAC is not only stickering High End coins; the CAC is stickering coins that are not PQ as well, those in the middle of the range indicated by the already certified grade.