He's been pushing this same story since at least last year. As has been noted elsewhere the only reason MLB is making this so-called 'story' news is a desperate ploy to draw attention, as college and pro football drowns out MLB once again.
I say good riddance. He's done absolutely nothing to clean the game up from steroid use, and, if anything, it's only accelerated. He's allowed personal vendettas get in the way (Bonds, Arod) of him doing his job. He's responsible for looking the other way as steroid use went from the fringes of the sport to infiltrating it at ever level. He's responsible for the idiotic idea of the all star game determining home field for the world series. He's solely responsible for MLB falling behind every single pro sport in the use of instant replay. His string of failures is quite lengthy, indeed.
I think it's interesting that he won't allow Pete Rose back in the game and has done his best to keep him out of the Hall of Fame, but he has totally aided those juicing by not doing much of anything. Feels like a double standard.
<< <i>I think it's interesting that he won't allow Pete Rose back in the game and has done his best to keep him out of the Hall of Fame, but he has totally aided those juicing by not doing much of anything. Feels like a double standard. >>
You really think the drug policy under Kuhn and all the other commissioners was tougher on drug users?
<< <i>I think it's interesting that he won't allow Pete Rose back in the game and has done his best to keep him out of the Hall of Fame, but he has totally aided those juicing by not doing much of anything. Feels like a double standard. >>
You really think the drug policy under Kuhn and all the other commissioners was tougher on drug users? >>
PED use has done more damage to the game than any other event in the history of the sport and that includes the Black Sox scandal. A sport that thrives on stats has had those stats forever ruined, or at least severely skewed, because of completely ignored drug use that hit it's peak under Bud's leadership.
Something else that few people talk about is Bud being directly responsible for the cancellation of the world series in 1994. That and the PED epidemic should be the first two things people talk about when discussing Bud's legacy to the game.
<< <i>PED use has done more damage to the game than any other event in the history of the sport and that includes the Black Sox scandal. A sport that thrives on stats has had those stats forever ruined, or at least severely skewed, because of completely ignored drug use that hit it's peak under Bud's leadership. >>
If you truly believe that, you should crediting everything Selig did.
During Selig's years as commissioner, baseball did more to fight against drug use than under all other commissioners combined. Other sports prohibited drugs, tested for them and punished drug users in the 60s and 70s, long before Selig ever became acting commissioner.
For so many decades, everyone involved in the sport including management, players, media and fans ignored the fact that there was no drug testing. That was going on long before Selig became commissioner and it was Selig who fought so strongly against that to make sure baseball started testing for drugs and punishing offenders
<< <i>Something else that few people talk about is Bud being directly responsible for the cancellation of the world series in 1994. That and the PED epidemic should be the first two things people talk about when discussing Bud's legacy to the game. >>
There were strikes or lockouts in 1972, 73, 76, 80, 81, 85 and 90 leading up to the 94-95 lockout. From the first labor contract in 1968 through 1995, every time labor and management negotiated there was either a strike or lockout. It has not happened since then. If we blame Selig for the 1994 World Series, how much credit do we give him for the 19 years since?
The reason we've had labor peace is the revenues have never been higher which makes labor peace much easier and those revenues came about due to PED use and the eye popping numbers which drew fans back.
<< <i>The reason we've had labor peace is the revenues have never been higher which makes labor peace much easier and those revenues came about due to PED use and the eye popping numbers which drew fans back. >>
If your theory is correct, that makes everything Selig did even more impressive: institute drug testing when no one wanted it and maintain high revenues for a full 10 years
<< <i>The reason we've had labor peace is the revenues have never been higher which makes labor peace much easier and those revenues came about due to PED use and the eye popping numbers which drew fans back. >>
If your theory is correct, that makes everything Selig did even more impressive: institute drug testing when no one wanted it and maintain high revenues for a full 10 years >>
Bud knew about the PED use and all the positive tests for more than a decade. That's not a theory. That's fact. What did he do? Absolutely nothing until public uproar and congressional hearings forced him to address the issue.
<< <i>The reason we've had labor peace is the revenues have never been higher which makes labor peace much easier and those revenues came about due to PED use and the eye popping numbers which drew fans back. >>
If your theory is correct, that makes everything Selig did even more impressive: institute drug testing when no one wanted it and maintain high revenues for a full 10 years >>
He sold his soul to the devil (i.e. PED use) in the early part of his tenure to get revenues where they were at. Sorry, but that makes him irredeemable. He hasn't done one thing to boost these revenues, it was the players and the players alone responsible for drawing fans in. As far as drug testing goes, only once Congress threatened to get involved did Bud finally start to move, but by then, Pandora was out of her box.
What has Bud done to help baseball? Has he done thing one to motivate the sport's revenues or attendance in small markets? Has he pressed the major media outlets like FOX and ESPN to showcase smaller market teams with exciting players on them? Or did he only perpetuate the inequality that already exists? Can you think of one positive change he has been responsible for? Does anyone like the all star game determining home field advantage in the world series? Does anyone like that instant replay still, in 2013 (!) is so limited? Does anyone like the overabundance of terrible umpires?
While I have quite a negative outlook on his tenure as commissioner, I have looked and looked for one positive thing he is responsible for as commissioner and I can't find it. He turned a blind eye to PEDs for YEARS, and is responsible for the only world series since the war to be cancelled, but I'm supposed to applaud the guy because TV contracts (something he didn't negotiate) started a huge windfall for already wealthy owners? Sorry, I don't see it.
<< <i>The reason we've had labor peace is the revenues have never been higher which makes labor peace much easier and those revenues came about due to PED use and the eye popping numbers which drew fans back. >>
If your theory is correct, that makes everything Selig did even more impressive: institute drug testing when no one wanted it and maintain high revenues for a full 10 years >>
Congress threatening to take away MLB's anti-trust exemption facilitated that.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i> Bud knew about the PED use and all the positive tests for more than a decade. That's not a theory. That's fact. What did he do? Absolutely nothing until public uproar and congressional hearings forced him to address the issue. >>
How could there have been any positive tests before 2003 if there was no testing?
Selig knew very well that there was no drug testing in baseball when he took over as commissioner. But all the commissioners before him also knew that and chose to do nothing. The players, owners, media and fans also all knew that and chose to look away
<< <i> Selig knew very well that there was no drug testing in baseball when he took over as commissioner. But all the commissioners before him also knew that and chose to do nothing. The players, owners, media and fans also all knew that and chose to look away >>
Steroids only really began to take hold in MLB under Selig's watch, and really came to the forefront after the debacle that was the cancellation of the 1994 world series. That being said, even if other commissioners failed to do drug testing, it doesn't take away from the fact that Selig, despite his bluster, didn't do anything until Congress intervened. Period. That is impossible to debate, and the fact that you want to try to color Bud in a positive light on this is quite curious.
<< <i> That is impossible to debate, and the fact that you want to try to color Bud in a positive light on this is quite curious. >>
It's only curious to people like you who make up their own facts, while ignoring what everyone else sees so clearly. It's curious that you refuse to give any credit to anyone for lack of labor issues over the past 19 years. It's even more curious that the only credit you give for drug testing in baseball goes to congress
<< <i> That is impossible to debate, and the fact that you want to try to color Bud in a positive light on this is quite curious. >>
It's only curious to people like you who make up their own facts, while ignoring what everyone else sees so clearly. It's curious that you refuse to give any credit to anyone for lack of labor issues over the past 19 years. It's even more curious that the only credit you give for drug testing in baseball goes to congress >>
Where was Bud's push for drug testing before the Congressional hearings? If this was so important to Bud, why wasn't he at the forefront when he was an owner? He's been in a position to make an impact long before he was commissioner, but the facts remain: he did absolutely NOTHING about it until Congress threatened him. This is indisputable. If your only defense is 'well, nobody else did anything before him either!' then you have a pathetically weak case.
Why can't you at least admit that he didn't do anything until Congress threatened MLB?
<< <i>Why can't you at least admit that he didn't do anything until Congress threatened MLB? >>
Perhaps the same reason you cannot admit that he actually did do something when everyone else who had the opportunity refused. That is also indisputable
NV ~ Just a friendly reminder that you're "debating" someone that isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer and believes anti-trust is a tax exemption.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>Why can't you at least admit that he didn't do anything until Congress threatened MLB? >>
Perhaps the same reason you cannot admit that he actually did do something when everyone else who had the opportunity refused. That is also indisputable >>
He didn't do anything until Congress threatened to intervene. Period. He sat idly by as PED use skyrocketed and brought fans back from the world series cancellation he was responsible for.
He's a fraud, a cheat, a liar. You being on his side speaks VOLUMES.
<< <i>Why can't you at least admit that he didn't do anything until Congress threatened MLB? >>
Perhaps the same reason you cannot admit that he actually did do something when everyone else who had the opportunity refused. That is also indisputable >>
He didn't do anything until Congress threatened to intervene. Period. He sat idly by as PED use skyrocketed and brought fans back from the world series cancellation he was responsible for.
He's a fraud, a cheat, a liar. You being on his side speaks VOLUMES. >>
Wow.
Arod is just the same. I believe you should get off his side too
Did Bud hold him down to take roids?
Was he there in high school when Arod started juicing?
Sure, we know Selig didn't want the drug testing. Why would he? His sport was raking the money in. I guess one could look at it as a smart business move. They(owners) probably figured most fans didn't care if the guys did roids, and they would still buy tickets. They probably figured fans would just turn the blind eye...just like Axtell does with Arod! So I guess Bud pegged it right on! lol.
<< <i> Arod is just the same. I believe you should get off his side too >>
The difference? NVbaseball is trying to give Bud credit for instituting steroid testing, whereas Arod is not. Anyone suggesting that Bud is a good commissioner for getting drug testing in place obviously hasn't been paying attention for long.
<< <i>Did Bud hold him down to take roids? >>
No, but Bud looked the other way as steroid use became prevalent and players became unfathomably wealthy as a result. The temptation was simply too great, the rewards too high and the risk too low. In the end, Arod is still going to have made over half a billion dollars from baseball.
<< <i>Was he there in high school when Arod started juicing? >>
Were you?
<< <i>Sure, we know Selig didn't want the drug testing. Why would he? His sport was raking the money in. I guess one could look at it as a smart business move. They(owners) probably figured most fans didn't care if the guys did roids, and they would still buy tickets. They probably figured fans would just turn the blind eye...just like Axtell does with Arod! So I guess Bud pegged it right on! lol. >>
The difference is people like NV want to give Bud credit for instituting drug testing, despite ignoring it for over a decade, despite ignoring it as an owner. Sorry, but trying to tie Arod and Bud together? That dog just don't hunt, son.
<< <i> Arod is just the same. I believe you should get off his side too >>
The difference? NVbaseball is trying to give Bud credit for instituting steroid testing, whereas Arod is not. Anyone suggesting that Bud is a good commissioner for getting drug testing in place obviously hasn't been paying attention for long.
<< <i>Did Bud hold him down to take roids? >>
No, but Bud looked the other way as steroid use became prevalent and players became unfathomably wealthy as a result. The temptation was simply too great, the rewards too high and the risk too low. In the end, Arod is still going to have made over half a billion dollars from baseball.
<< <i>Was he there in high school when Arod started juicing? >>
Were you?
<< <i>Sure, we know Selig didn't want the drug testing. Why would he? His sport was raking the money in. I guess one could look at it as a smart business move. They(owners) probably figured most fans didn't care if the guys did roids, and they would still buy tickets. They probably figured fans would just turn the blind eye...just like Axtell does with Arod! So I guess Bud pegged it right on! lol. >>
The difference is people like NV want to give Bud credit for instituting drug testing, despite ignoring it for over a decade, despite ignoring it as an owner. Sorry, but trying to tie Arod and Bud together? That dog just don't hunt, son. >>
Sorry buddy, none of your answers made a valid point.
One cannot crucify Bud on one hand, and then 'recognize' the "achievements" of Arod on the other, yet that is what you do. Try again when you are consistent and objective.
The entire issue started when someone wanted to recognize Bud for instituting drug testing. I and others (correctly) pointed out that he only began the push when Congress threatened him. Period. I am simply stating you can't give him props for something that wasn't his idea in the first place, when he was busy looking the other way while players were ballooning up in size and swatting home runs in record numbers as fans came flooding back.
*THAT* is why I call him a cheat, a fraud, a liar.
<< <i>The entire issue started when someone wanted to recognize Bud for instituting drug testing. I and others (correctly) pointed out that he only began the push when Congress threatened him. Period. I am simply stating you can't give him props for something that wasn't his idea in the first place, when he was busy looking the other way while players were ballooning up in size and swatting home runs in record numbers as fans came flooding back.
*THAT* is why I call him a cheat, a fraud, a liar. >>
There is no question, Bud is indeed a cheat, a fraud, and most certainly a liar. However, those same adjectives apply to Arod...and yet you seem to believe that steroids were of no help to him, and you even stated that steroids do not help hitters. You basically gave Arod a free pass and continue to take his accomplishments at face value.
If you indeed feel that steroids are of no help to a hitter, and that the 'accomplishments of Arod should be viewed at face value...then it makes no sense to be upset with Bud Selig for the whole steroid issue, because in your own words in the Arod thread, you said steroids really don't help hitters anyway, so then no need for all the fuss about Bud for something that is a 'non factor'!
I find that extremely funny and amusing.
Please don't try to minimize your stance by saying you "haven't seen the evidence that steroids help"...or that they "only help a little." Because if either of those are true, then again, since they aren't a big deal it would then make no sense to bash Bud for the steroid mess as much as you are! Yet you do continue to make a big deal about it in regard to Bud....and continue to believe they did nothing of significance to help Arod.
Steroids certainly help, but arod would be been a hall of fame without them. Period.
Bud will ultimately make the hall while all time greats like Bonds, Clemens, and Arod are left out, showing just how flawed and ultimately out of touch with reality baseball has become.
<< <i>Steroids certainly help, but arod would be been a hall of fame without them. Period.
Bud will ultimately make the hall while all time greats like Bonds, Clemens, and Arod are left out, showing just how flawed and ultimately out of touch with reality baseball has become. >>
So you have since changed your stance from the other thread where you stated that steroids do NOT help hitters to any significant level. That is fine, everyone is entitled to move their stance forward.
However, if they "certainly help," it doesn't lend one to so adamantly say he would have been a HOF without them. It is quite possible he was a .280 hitter 25 homer guy without them, with no great peak, which could be a good career, but still fall short of HOF.
Bonds and Clemens clearly had MLB success before any PED use. Arod is quite possibly on them since day one of MLB, so I would not put those three in the same regard.
PED aside, Clemens and Bonds both dominated to a higher degree that Arod did. Bonds put up the best hitting numbers ever while on them. He was simply in another universe and was so far ahead of his peers, that one could look past PED use and still have to be impressed at least a little. Clemens dominated pitching for peak and career in an almost unparalleled level.
Arod, while having many excellent juiced up years, did not dominate at the level Bonds or Clemens had in the juiced up years.
And before you ask me if I was there with Arod to prove that he was on them since day one, I ask you if you were there to disprove!? Considering the culture of MLB, and Arod's M/O of being the biggest liar in the world, it is far more likely that he was on them since day one, as opposed to just the times he says he was.
If anyone believes Arod when he says he was only on them for those few years, then I have a bridge in NY that is far sale, contact me if interested.
Skin you're the one making the accusation of him being on PEDs since day one therefore the burden is on YOU to provide evidence. It would be the same as me saying you're a criminal then asking YOU to disprove it.
Steroids don't give players all time numbers like arod. He would have been a hall of famer without them.
So until you can prove he was on them from day one? It's time to put up or shut up.
<< <i>Skin you're the one making the accusation of him being on PEDs since day one therefore the burden is on YOU to provide evidence. It would be the same as me saying you're a criminal then asking YOU to disprove it.
Steroids don't give players all time numbers like arod. He would have been a hall of famer without them.
So until you can prove he was on them from day one? It's time to put up or shut up. >>
Actually, until he proves otherwise, with all the lies he has told about them to begin with, and with the steroid use culture in MLB, it is far more likely that he used since day one, than he didn't. It is very reasonable for one to believe that, considering that he(and all the other users), all lied about even taking them to begin with. Certainly you don't believe that he just used those 'few years with texas'? Tell me you are that naive?
Since steroids are such a huge problem, hence your disdain for Bud Selig, surely they have a big effect...otherwise, something with so minimal effect would not cause you to have an uproar over Bud.
So yeah, without roids, his production could be anywhere from league average player to just slightly less production than he did, who knows. However, since YOU YOURSELF feel they are a huge problem, then that line of thinking would put his production much lower than it actually was...hence not a Hall of Famer.
PS. I personally don't even care about them doing roids. I do find it amusing when guys like you express disdain over the issue, that is until your hero gets caught, then you turn a blind eye, or rationalize it. lol.
I also find it amusing how people actually believe these guys when all they have done is lie. Who in their right mind actually believes Arod when he says he only did it for a couple of years?
Actually, until he proves otherwise, with all the lies he has told about them to begin with, and with the steroid use culture in MLB, it is far more likely that he used since day one, than he didn't. It is very reasonable for one to believe that, considering that he(and all the other users), all lied about even taking them to begin with. Certainly you don't believe that he just used those 'few years with texas'? Tell me you are that naive? >>
No, sir, you continually fail to grasp the idea of 'burden of proof'. YOU made a claim, it's up to YOU to back it up, or shut your yap about it. End of story.
<< <i>Since steroids are such a huge problem, hence your disdain for Bud Selig, surely they have a big effect...otherwise, something with so minimal effect would not cause you to have an uproar over Bud. >>
My disdain for Bud stems from his NOT testing for PEDs until Congress threatened to intervene, then suddenly he's all in favor for it. Try to keep up, son, I've been saying this all along.
Actually, until he proves otherwise, with all the lies he has told about them to begin with, and with the steroid use culture in MLB, it is far more likely that he used since day one, than he didn't. It is very reasonable for one to believe that, considering that he(and all the other users), all lied about even taking them to begin with. Certainly you don't believe that he just used those 'few years with texas'? Tell me you are that naive? >>
No, sir, you continually fail to grasp the idea of 'burden of proof'. YOU made a claim, it's up to YOU to back it up, or shut your yap about it. End of story.
<< <i>Since steroids are such a huge problem, hence your disdain for Bud Selig, surely they have a big effect...otherwise, something with so minimal effect would not cause you to have an uproar over Bud. >>
My disdain for Bud stems from his NOT testing for PEDs until Congress threatened to intervene, then suddenly he's all in favor for it. Try to keep up, son, I've been saying this all along. >>
Sorry, not good enough responses. It still stands, Arod's accomplishments are completely tainted, he very well could have been a .280 20 HR hitter without roids, and he deserves the same disdain you have extended toward Bud. Sorry buddy, you can't have it both ways.
Skin each and every one of your responses is the very definition of 'not good enough'.
Bud is responsible for the first world series cancellation since the war. FACT. Bud was in charge as PEDs took hold and became an epidemic in the sport. FACT. Bud refused to implement instant replay in any sort of meaningful capacity thereby impacting the integrity of the sport. FACT. Bud is responsible for the debacle of an exhibition determining home field advantage in the world series. FACT.
Add it all up and you have a commissioner who has completely and totally failed at his job. FACT.
<< <i>Skin each and every one of your responses is the very definition of 'not good enough'.
Bud is responsible for the first world series cancellation since the war. FACT. Bud was in charge as PEDs took hold and became an epidemic in the sport. FACT. Bud refused to implement instant replay in any sort of meaningful capacity thereby impacting the integrity of the sport. FACT. Bud is responsible for the debacle of an exhibition determining home field advantage in the world series. FACT.
Add it all up and you have a commissioner who has completely and totally failed at his job. FACT. >>
Axtell,
Nope, nice try again. You still fail to make a valid point, and continue to be filled with bias in regard to the clear non HOFer Arod.
First, you exhibited that you did not know the difference between a hit and a fielders choice...now you clearly do not know what is fact or opinion, lol!
Of those five things you claimed as "fact", maybe one of them might be considered a fact, and that one, only the first four words may possibly be considered fact(had you not finished the sentence with your opinion), "Bud was in charge..." Yes, he was in charge, but not sure how you can claim factually that he was when they "took hold." "Took hold" could mean the first steroid user(and Bud was not in charge then), or it could mean any number things, including some people still viewing them as "still not having took hold"... therefore it is not a fact. Nor can your use of "epidemic" be considered a fact.
Your use of phrases like "Bud refused to," is "responsible for," "meaningful capacity," "integrity of the sport," nor "debacle of," or "failed his job," are not factual at all. Those are your opinions and how you view them, and are not facts.
So I say again, sorry, nice try. You made no valid points.
Arod still is a non HOFer both with or without steroids...and you still don't like that, so you talk out of both sides of your mouth.
The end of the 2014 season cannot come fast enough! Out with Bud! Hopefully in with someone who has something resembling integrity and a passion for the sport!
<< <i>The end of the 2014 season cannot come fast enough! Out with Bud! Hopefully in with someone who has something resembling integrity and a passion for the sport! >>
Is that a fact or opinion?
We also come full circle here, as that same statement and disdain needs to also be held for Arod.
Also, lets not forget that in other threads you claimed that steroids do not help hitters, but still cite steroids as a large reason why Bud created an "epidemic" in the game.
I ask again, if steroids don't help hitters like you claimed, then what is there an epidemic of? An epidemic of things that don't matter or help? That would be like saying dandruff is an epidemic that could wipe out human civilization. I would see no epidemic or ruining of the integrity of the game if steroids made no difference to hitters.
If steroids are an epidemic and a reason for Bud ruining the game, then that means they help hitters unfairly, which means they helped Arod unfairly, which means his numbers cannot be taken at face value(like you try to do).
Yet you still claim they don't help hitters, nor cause a reason to question Arod's 'achievements'...but have no problem bashing Bud for causing the "steroid epidemic."
Skin, if you want to continue to debate Arod, go to the appropriate thread. Your continued insistence on trying to take discussions off topic were amusing at first but now border on the psychotic. Your singular obsession over Arod is fascinating.
Bud's a fraud, and so are you. No wonder you're doing all you can to try to help the guy.
The title of the thread is 'Finally! Bud is retiring.'
Keep to the topic or go elsewhere.
Bud is responsible for the game losing relevance and popularity in his adamant refusal to address the issues surrounding the game. Refusing to implement instant replay and address the out or control umpires that try to make the game about them is only hurting popularity.
Bud is responsible for the game losing relevance and popularity in his adamant refusal to address the issues surrounding the game >>
You cite steroids as a key issue concerning Bud, yet you claim they are a non-issue when it comes to Arod, and even claim that steroids do not help hitters.
So they either are an issue, or they are not.
The double talk you produce is what needs to go elsewhere
I find it comical, so I think I will stick around a bit.
Bud *is* addressing the pressing issues; hence Alex's 211-game suspension for alleged bribery, interfering with MLB investigations, facilitating sales of illegal drugs, etc.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>If you only address a problem after facing repercussions then you don't get credit for it. Sorry. >>
You said before that steroids were insignificant...now they are a problem? Which is it?
You said that steroids aren't any different than greenies, and you made it clear that greenies have been around long before Bud. So, if steroids and greenies are of equal factors, then how on earth would a steroid epidemic be Bud's fault when greenies(which you claim are the same as steroids), were in the game LONG before Bud came along????
It's a free country, so people can give Bud all the credit they want for handing down a 211-game suspension to Alex for alleged bribery, interfering with MLB investigations, facilitating sales of illegal drugs, etc.
If someone doesn't like it, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
It's not an opinion to say that PEDs infiltrated baseball under Bud at a rate never seen before. It's not an opinion to say that baseball saw, under Bud, its first World Series cancelled since the war. It's not an opinion to say that under Bud an exhibition game now determines World Series home field advantage.
Even better is that huckster Selig has been named in a lawsuit brought by Arod. Hilarious!
Hopefully all the shady dealings Bud participated in trying to acquire evidence in the Arod investigation comes to light.
"The lawsuit alleges that Selig and other baseball officials have had one goal: "to improperly marshal evidence that they hope to use to destroy the reputation and career of Alex Rodriguez, one of the most accomplished major league baseball players of all time."
Hopefully this accelerates the time frame in which Bud shows himself the door. It can't happen soon enough!
So it appears the entire reason Bud went after Arod so much was to ensure he could do a 'victory lap' of sorts through his final year as commissioner. Trouble is, Buddy boy, NOBODY wants to see you, they only want to see you gone.
Seeing Mariano Rivera, one of baseball's best guys, who is universally appreciate (even in heated rival Boston), take a season long tour of stadiums apparently gave Buddy boy an idea. He felt that HE should be as well received throughout baseball, except one little thing:
Everyone knows you're a fraud, Buddy boy. Everyone knows that you oversaw the explosion of PEDs in baseball and you sat back on your hands and did absolutely NOTHING until the genie was out of the bottle. YOU oversaw the steroid era, and YOU will forever be linked to it, no matter how many dopey media folks you get to take your photo shaking hands with 'fans'.
"In fact, Selig said, he would like to spend his last year as commissioner on a Mariano Rivera-type tour of all 30 major league parks, speaking not with baseball dignitaries but with fans and people who work in his sport behind the scenes."
"In fact, Selig said, he would like to spend his last year as commissioner on a Mariano Rivera-type tour of all 30 major league parks, speaking not with baseball dignitaries but with fans and people who work in his sport behind the scenes."
Buddy boy, nobody wants you in their stadium. Nobody wants to give you a gift. Nobody wants you, period. Now hurry up and get lost, and never come back.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
The biggest mistake Bud made in his tenure as a commissioner was not giving Arod a lifetime ban.
He was roadblocked all those years(by the players association) in any attempt to get drug testing. Even when the players association was forced to agree(after the congress hearings), they would only agree to a very weak policy(mainly no blood testing).
In the end though, he is going out guns blazing and bringing down the biggest doper and fraud of them all(Arod)....AND he is doing the impossible; getting the union, owners, and commissioner to ALL be in agreement on a subject...the subject of Arod being a cheat, a liar, and a fraud.
For that, despite having some weak moments as a commissioner, good job Bud.
<< <i>The biggest mistake Bud made in his tenure as a commissioner was not giving Arod a lifetime ban. >>
He couldn't even get 211 games. And you think he had a shot in hell at lifetime? Being naive is so endearing.
<< <i>He was roadblocked all those years(by the players association) in any attempt to get drug testing. Even when the players association was forced to agree(after the congress hearings), they would only agree to a very weak policy(mainly no blood testing). >>
Right, because the current steroid withhunt has been ALL about positive tests, and not rumor and innuendo. How many worthy hall of famers have failed no drug tests but are still kept out because of supposed PED links? Bud's 'policy' has been a joke, there's only been MORE PED use (not less) since the advent of testing, and the players and its union did the absolute RIGHT thing in fighting testing.
<< <i>In the end though, he is going out guns blazing and bringing down the biggest doper and fraud of them all(Arod)....AND he is doing the impossible; getting the union, owners, and commissioner to ALL be in agreement on a subject...the subject of Arod being a cheat, a liar, and a fraud. >>
So because you think he's a douche, you personally don't like him, you think Bud's tenure has been a success? That's laughably ignorant. You should know better. Bud has done more harm to the game than any other commissioner in history. He personally not only oversaw but perpetuated the PED culture, and that cat sure isn't going back in the bag.
<< <i>For that, despite having some weak moments as a commissioner, good job Bud. >>
Weak moments? His entire tenure has been pathetic. However, this isn't about his job, your entire post is a jab at me and my support of a player who was unfairly targetted. We get it - you think I see Arod as a hero. You think if you keep hammering away at Arod and supporting this fraud of a commissioner, you're taking shots at me.
Here's the thing - Arod was great to watch, but I, like most adults, don't see athletes as 'heroes' or 'role models'. Perhaps you do; that's not for me to decide. But sitting there repeatedly thinking you are taking shots at me through attacks on Arod is hilarious.
<< <i> Bud's 'policy' has been a joke, there's only been MORE PED use (not less) since the advent of testing, and the players and its union did the absolute RIGHT thing in fighting testing. >>
Is that sort of enhanced performance a good thing or a bad thing? If it is bad, what sort of drug policy should the next commissioner have?
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I say good riddance. He's done absolutely nothing to clean the game up from steroid use, and, if anything, it's only accelerated. He's allowed personal vendettas get in the way (Bonds, Arod) of him doing his job. He's responsible for looking the other way as steroid use went from the fringes of the sport to infiltrating it at ever level. He's responsible for the idiotic idea of the all star game determining home field for the world series. He's solely responsible for MLB falling behind every single pro sport in the use of instant replay. His string of failures is quite lengthy, indeed.
<< <i>I think it's interesting that he won't allow Pete Rose back in the game and has done his best to keep him out of the Hall of Fame, but he has totally aided those juicing by not doing much of anything. Feels like a double standard. >>
You really think the drug policy under Kuhn and all the other commissioners was tougher on drug users?
<< <i>
<< <i>I think it's interesting that he won't allow Pete Rose back in the game and has done his best to keep him out of the Hall of Fame, but he has totally aided those juicing by not doing much of anything. Feels like a double standard. >>
You really think the drug policy under Kuhn and all the other commissioners was tougher on drug users? >>
PED use has done more damage to the game than any other event in the history of the sport and that includes the Black Sox scandal. A sport that thrives on stats has had those stats forever ruined, or at least severely skewed, because of completely ignored drug use that hit it's peak under Bud's leadership.
<< <i>PED use has done more damage to the game than any other event in the history of the sport and that includes the Black Sox scandal. A sport that thrives on stats has had those stats forever ruined, or at least severely skewed, because of completely ignored drug use that hit it's peak under Bud's leadership. >>
If you truly believe that, you should crediting everything Selig did.
During Selig's years as commissioner, baseball did more to fight against drug use than under all other commissioners combined. Other sports prohibited drugs, tested for them and punished drug users in the 60s and 70s, long before Selig ever became acting commissioner.
For so many decades, everyone involved in the sport including management, players, media and fans ignored the fact that there was no drug testing. That was going on long before Selig became commissioner and it was Selig who fought so strongly against that to make sure baseball started testing for drugs and punishing offenders
<< <i>Something else that few people talk about is Bud being directly responsible for the cancellation of the world series in 1994. That and the PED epidemic should be the first two things people talk about when discussing Bud's legacy to the game. >>
There were strikes or lockouts in 1972, 73, 76, 80, 81, 85 and 90 leading up to the 94-95 lockout. From the first labor contract in 1968 through 1995, every time labor and management negotiated there was either a strike or lockout. It has not happened since then. If we blame Selig for the 1994 World Series, how much credit do we give him for the 19 years since?
<< <i>The reason we've had labor peace is the revenues have never been higher which makes labor peace much easier and those revenues came about due to PED use and the eye popping numbers which drew fans back. >>
If your theory is correct, that makes everything Selig did even more impressive: institute drug testing when no one wanted it and maintain high revenues for a full 10 years
<< <i>
<< <i>The reason we've had labor peace is the revenues have never been higher which makes labor peace much easier and those revenues came about due to PED use and the eye popping numbers which drew fans back. >>
If your theory is correct, that makes everything Selig did even more impressive: institute drug testing when no one wanted it and maintain high revenues for a full 10 years >>
Bud knew about the PED use and all the positive tests for more than a decade. That's not a theory. That's fact. What did he do? Absolutely nothing until public uproar and congressional hearings forced him to address the issue.
<< <i>
<< <i>The reason we've had labor peace is the revenues have never been higher which makes labor peace much easier and those revenues came about due to PED use and the eye popping numbers which drew fans back. >>
If your theory is correct, that makes everything Selig did even more impressive: institute drug testing when no one wanted it and maintain high revenues for a full 10 years >>
He sold his soul to the devil (i.e. PED use) in the early part of his tenure to get revenues where they were at. Sorry, but that makes him irredeemable. He hasn't done one thing to boost these revenues, it was the players and the players alone responsible for drawing fans in. As far as drug testing goes, only once Congress threatened to get involved did Bud finally start to move, but by then, Pandora was out of her box.
What has Bud done to help baseball? Has he done thing one to motivate the sport's revenues or attendance in small markets? Has he pressed the major media outlets like FOX and ESPN to showcase smaller market teams with exciting players on them? Or did he only perpetuate the inequality that already exists? Can you think of one positive change he has been responsible for? Does anyone like the all star game determining home field advantage in the world series? Does anyone like that instant replay still, in 2013 (!) is so limited? Does anyone like the overabundance of terrible umpires?
While I have quite a negative outlook on his tenure as commissioner, I have looked and looked for one positive thing he is responsible for as commissioner and I can't find it. He turned a blind eye to PEDs for YEARS, and is responsible for the only world series since the war to be cancelled, but I'm supposed to applaud the guy because TV contracts (something he didn't negotiate) started a huge windfall for already wealthy owners? Sorry, I don't see it.
<< <i>
<< <i>The reason we've had labor peace is the revenues have never been higher which makes labor peace much easier and those revenues came about due to PED use and the eye popping numbers which drew fans back. >>
If your theory is correct, that makes everything Selig did even more impressive: institute drug testing when no one wanted it and maintain high revenues for a full 10 years >>
Congress threatening to take away MLB's anti-trust exemption facilitated that.
<< <i>
Bud knew about the PED use and all the positive tests for more than a decade. That's not a theory. That's fact. What did he do? Absolutely nothing until public uproar and congressional hearings forced him to address the issue. >>
How could there have been any positive tests before 2003 if there was no testing?
Selig knew very well that there was no drug testing in baseball when he took over as commissioner. But all the commissioners before him also knew that and chose to do nothing. The players, owners, media and fans also all knew that and chose to look away
<< <i>
Selig knew very well that there was no drug testing in baseball when he took over as commissioner. But all the commissioners before him also knew that and chose to do nothing. The players, owners, media and fans also all knew that and chose to look away >>
Steroids only really began to take hold in MLB under Selig's watch, and really came to the forefront after the debacle that was the cancellation of the 1994 world series. That being said, even if other commissioners failed to do drug testing, it doesn't take away from the fact that Selig, despite his bluster, didn't do anything until Congress intervened. Period. That is impossible to debate, and the fact that you want to try to color Bud in a positive light on this is quite curious.
<< <i> That is impossible to debate, and the fact that you want to try to color Bud in a positive light on this is quite curious. >>
It's only curious to people like you who make up their own facts, while ignoring what everyone else sees so clearly. It's curious that you refuse to give any credit to anyone for lack of labor issues over the past 19 years. It's even more curious that the only credit you give for drug testing in baseball goes to congress
<< <i>
<< <i> That is impossible to debate, and the fact that you want to try to color Bud in a positive light on this is quite curious. >>
It's only curious to people like you who make up their own facts, while ignoring what everyone else sees so clearly. It's curious that you refuse to give any credit to anyone for lack of labor issues over the past 19 years. It's even more curious that the only credit you give for drug testing in baseball goes to congress >>
Where was Bud's push for drug testing before the Congressional hearings? If this was so important to Bud, why wasn't he at the forefront when he was an owner? He's been in a position to make an impact long before he was commissioner, but the facts remain: he did absolutely NOTHING about it until Congress threatened him. This is indisputable. If your only defense is 'well, nobody else did anything before him either!' then you have a pathetically weak case.
Why can't you at least admit that he didn't do anything until Congress threatened MLB?
<< <i>Why can't you at least admit that he didn't do anything until Congress threatened MLB? >>
Perhaps the same reason you cannot admit that he actually did do something when everyone else who had the opportunity refused. That is also indisputable
<< <i>
<< <i>Why can't you at least admit that he didn't do anything until Congress threatened MLB? >>
Perhaps the same reason you cannot admit that he actually did do something when everyone else who had the opportunity refused. That is also indisputable >>
He didn't do anything until Congress threatened to intervene. Period. He sat idly by as PED use skyrocketed and brought fans back from the world series cancellation he was responsible for.
He's a fraud, a cheat, a liar. You being on his side speaks VOLUMES.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Why can't you at least admit that he didn't do anything until Congress threatened MLB? >>
Perhaps the same reason you cannot admit that he actually did do something when everyone else who had the opportunity refused. That is also indisputable >>
He didn't do anything until Congress threatened to intervene. Period. He sat idly by as PED use skyrocketed and brought fans back from the world series cancellation he was responsible for.
He's a fraud, a cheat, a liar. You being on his side speaks VOLUMES. >>
Wow.
Arod is just the same. I believe you should get off his side too
Did Bud hold him down to take roids?
Was he there in high school when Arod started juicing?
Sure, we know Selig didn't want the drug testing. Why would he? His sport was raking the money in. I guess one could look at it as a smart business move. They(owners) probably figured most fans didn't care if the guys did roids, and they would still buy tickets. They probably figured fans would just turn the blind eye...just like Axtell does with Arod! So I guess Bud pegged it right on! lol.
<< <i>
Arod is just the same. I believe you should get off his side too
>>
The difference? NVbaseball is trying to give Bud credit for instituting steroid testing, whereas Arod is not. Anyone suggesting that Bud is a good commissioner for getting drug testing in place obviously hasn't been paying attention for long.
<< <i>Did Bud hold him down to take roids? >>
No, but Bud looked the other way as steroid use became prevalent and players became unfathomably wealthy as a result. The temptation was simply too great, the rewards too high and the risk too low. In the end, Arod is still going to have made over half a billion dollars from baseball.
<< <i>Was he there in high school when Arod started juicing? >>
Were you?
<< <i>Sure, we know Selig didn't want the drug testing. Why would he? His sport was raking the money in. I guess one could look at it as a smart business move. They(owners) probably figured most fans didn't care if the guys did roids, and they would still buy tickets. They probably figured fans would just turn the blind eye...just like Axtell does with Arod! So I guess Bud pegged it right on! lol. >>
The difference is people like NV want to give Bud credit for instituting drug testing, despite ignoring it for over a decade, despite ignoring it as an owner. Sorry, but trying to tie Arod and Bud together? That dog just don't hunt, son.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Arod is just the same. I believe you should get off his side too
>>
The difference? NVbaseball is trying to give Bud credit for instituting steroid testing, whereas Arod is not. Anyone suggesting that Bud is a good commissioner for getting drug testing in place obviously hasn't been paying attention for long.
<< <i>Did Bud hold him down to take roids? >>
No, but Bud looked the other way as steroid use became prevalent and players became unfathomably wealthy as a result. The temptation was simply too great, the rewards too high and the risk too low. In the end, Arod is still going to have made over half a billion dollars from baseball.
<< <i>Was he there in high school when Arod started juicing? >>
Were you?
<< <i>Sure, we know Selig didn't want the drug testing. Why would he? His sport was raking the money in. I guess one could look at it as a smart business move. They(owners) probably figured most fans didn't care if the guys did roids, and they would still buy tickets. They probably figured fans would just turn the blind eye...just like Axtell does with Arod! So I guess Bud pegged it right on! lol. >>
The difference is people like NV want to give Bud credit for instituting drug testing, despite ignoring it for over a decade, despite ignoring it as an owner. Sorry, but trying to tie Arod and Bud together? That dog just don't hunt, son. >>
Sorry buddy, none of your answers made a valid point.
One cannot crucify Bud on one hand, and then 'recognize' the "achievements" of Arod on the other, yet that is what you do. Try again when you are consistent and objective.
*THAT* is why I call him a cheat, a fraud, a liar.
<< <i>The entire issue started when someone wanted to recognize Bud for instituting drug testing. I and others (correctly) pointed out that he only began the push when Congress threatened him. Period. I am simply stating you can't give him props for something that wasn't his idea in the first place, when he was busy looking the other way while players were ballooning up in size and swatting home runs in record numbers as fans came flooding back.
*THAT* is why I call him a cheat, a fraud, a liar. >>
There is no question, Bud is indeed a cheat, a fraud, and most certainly a liar. However, those same adjectives apply to Arod...and yet you seem to believe that steroids were of no help to him, and you even stated that steroids do not help hitters. You basically gave Arod a free pass and continue to take his accomplishments at face value.
If you indeed feel that steroids are of no help to a hitter, and that the 'accomplishments of Arod should be viewed at face value...then it makes no sense to be upset with Bud Selig for the whole steroid issue, because in your own words in the Arod thread, you said steroids really don't help hitters anyway, so then no need for all the fuss about Bud for something that is a 'non factor'!
I find that extremely funny and amusing.
Please don't try to minimize your stance by saying you "haven't seen the evidence that steroids help"...or that they "only help a little." Because if either of those are true, then again, since they aren't a big deal it would then make no sense to bash Bud for the steroid mess as much as you are! Yet you do continue to make a big deal about it in regard to Bud....and continue to believe they did nothing of significance to help Arod.
Bud will ultimately make the hall while all time greats like Bonds, Clemens, and Arod are left out, showing just how flawed and ultimately out of touch with reality baseball has become.
<< <i>Steroids certainly help, but arod would be been a hall of fame without them. Period.
Bud will ultimately make the hall while all time greats like Bonds, Clemens, and Arod are left out, showing just how flawed and ultimately out of touch with reality baseball has become. >>
So you have since changed your stance from the other thread where you stated that steroids do NOT help hitters to any significant level. That is fine, everyone is entitled to move their stance forward.
However, if they "certainly help," it doesn't lend one to so adamantly say he would have been a HOF without them. It is quite possible he was a .280 hitter 25 homer guy without them, with no great peak, which could be a good career, but still fall short of HOF.
Bonds and Clemens clearly had MLB success before any PED use. Arod is quite possibly on them since day one of MLB, so I would not put those three in the same regard.
PED aside, Clemens and Bonds both dominated to a higher degree that Arod did. Bonds put up the best hitting numbers ever while on them. He was simply in another universe and was so far ahead of his peers, that one could look past PED use and still have to be impressed at least a little. Clemens dominated pitching for peak and career in an almost unparalleled level.
Arod, while having many excellent juiced up years, did not dominate at the level Bonds or Clemens had in the juiced up years.
And before you ask me if I was there with Arod to prove that he was on them since day one, I ask you if you were there to disprove!? Considering the culture of MLB, and Arod's M/O of being the biggest liar in the world, it is far more likely that he was on them since day one, as opposed to just the times he says he was.
If anyone believes Arod when he says he was only on them for those few years, then I have a bridge in NY that is far sale, contact me if interested.
Steroids don't give players all time numbers like arod. He would have been a hall of famer without them.
So until you can prove he was on them from day one? It's time to put up or shut up.
<< <i>Skin you're the one making the accusation of him being on PEDs since day one therefore the burden is on YOU to provide evidence. It would be the same as me saying you're a criminal then asking YOU to disprove it.
Steroids don't give players all time numbers like arod. He would have been a hall of famer without them.
So until you can prove he was on them from day one? It's time to put up or shut up. >>
Actually, until he proves otherwise, with all the lies he has told about them to begin with, and with the steroid use culture in MLB, it is far more likely that he used since day one, than he didn't. It is very reasonable for one to believe that, considering that he(and all the other users), all lied about even taking them to begin with. Certainly you don't believe that he just used those 'few years with texas'? Tell me you are that naive?
Since steroids are such a huge problem, hence your disdain for Bud Selig, surely they have a big effect...otherwise, something with so minimal effect would not cause you to have an uproar over Bud.
So yeah, without roids, his production could be anywhere from league average player to just slightly less production than he did, who knows. However, since YOU YOURSELF feel they are a huge problem, then that line of thinking would put his production much lower than it actually was...hence not a Hall of Famer.
PS. I personally don't even care about them doing roids. I do find it amusing when guys like you express disdain over the issue, that is until your hero gets caught, then you turn a blind eye, or rationalize it. lol.
I also find it amusing how people actually believe these guys when all they have done is lie. Who in their right mind actually believes Arod when he says he only did it for a couple of years?
<< <i>
Actually, until he proves otherwise, with all the lies he has told about them to begin with, and with the steroid use culture in MLB, it is far more likely that he used since day one, than he didn't. It is very reasonable for one to believe that, considering that he(and all the other users), all lied about even taking them to begin with. Certainly you don't believe that he just used those 'few years with texas'? Tell me you are that naive?
>>
No, sir, you continually fail to grasp the idea of 'burden of proof'. YOU made a claim, it's up to YOU to back it up, or shut your yap about it. End of story.
<< <i>Since steroids are such a huge problem, hence your disdain for Bud Selig, surely they have a big effect...otherwise, something with so minimal effect would not cause you to have an uproar over Bud. >>
My disdain for Bud stems from his NOT testing for PEDs until Congress threatened to intervene, then suddenly he's all in favor for it. Try to keep up, son, I've been saying this all along.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Actually, until he proves otherwise, with all the lies he has told about them to begin with, and with the steroid use culture in MLB, it is far more likely that he used since day one, than he didn't. It is very reasonable for one to believe that, considering that he(and all the other users), all lied about even taking them to begin with. Certainly you don't believe that he just used those 'few years with texas'? Tell me you are that naive?
>>
No, sir, you continually fail to grasp the idea of 'burden of proof'. YOU made a claim, it's up to YOU to back it up, or shut your yap about it. End of story.
<< <i>Since steroids are such a huge problem, hence your disdain for Bud Selig, surely they have a big effect...otherwise, something with so minimal effect would not cause you to have an uproar over Bud. >>
My disdain for Bud stems from his NOT testing for PEDs until Congress threatened to intervene, then suddenly he's all in favor for it. Try to keep up, son, I've been saying this all along. >>
Sorry, not good enough responses. It still stands, Arod's accomplishments are completely tainted, he very well could have been a .280 20 HR hitter without roids, and he deserves the same disdain you have extended toward Bud. Sorry buddy, you can't have it both ways.
Bud is responsible for the first world series cancellation since the war. FACT.
Bud was in charge as PEDs took hold and became an epidemic in the sport. FACT.
Bud refused to implement instant replay in any sort of meaningful capacity thereby impacting the integrity of the sport. FACT.
Bud is responsible for the debacle of an exhibition determining home field advantage in the world series. FACT.
Add it all up and you have a commissioner who has completely and totally failed at his job. FACT.
<< <i>Skin each and every one of your responses is the very definition of 'not good enough'.
Bud is responsible for the first world series cancellation since the war. FACT.
Bud was in charge as PEDs took hold and became an epidemic in the sport. FACT.
Bud refused to implement instant replay in any sort of meaningful capacity thereby impacting the integrity of the sport. FACT.
Bud is responsible for the debacle of an exhibition determining home field advantage in the world series. FACT.
Add it all up and you have a commissioner who has completely and totally failed at his job. FACT. >>
Axtell,
Nope, nice try again. You still fail to make a valid point, and continue to be filled with bias in regard to the clear non HOFer Arod.
First, you exhibited that you did not know the difference between a hit and a fielders choice...now you clearly do not know what is fact or opinion, lol!
Of those five things you claimed as "fact", maybe one of them might be considered a fact, and that one, only the first four words may possibly be considered fact(had you not finished the sentence with your opinion), "Bud was in charge..." Yes, he was in charge, but not sure how you can claim factually that he was when they "took hold." "Took hold" could mean the first steroid user(and Bud was not in charge then), or it could mean any number things, including some people still viewing them as "still not having took hold"... therefore it is not a fact. Nor can your use of "epidemic" be considered a fact.
Your use of phrases like "Bud refused to," is "responsible for," "meaningful capacity," "integrity of the sport," nor "debacle of," or "failed his job," are not factual at all. Those are your opinions and how you view them, and are not facts.
So I say again, sorry, nice try. You made no valid points.
Arod still is a non HOFer both with or without steroids...and you still don't like that, so you talk out of both sides of your mouth.
<< <i>The end of the 2014 season cannot come fast enough! Out with Bud! Hopefully in with someone who has something resembling integrity and a passion for the sport! >>
Is that a fact or opinion?
We also come full circle here, as that same statement and disdain needs to also be held for Arod.
Also, lets not forget that in other threads you claimed that steroids do not help hitters, but still cite steroids as a large reason why Bud created an "epidemic" in the game.
I ask again, if steroids don't help hitters like you claimed, then what is there an epidemic of? An epidemic of things that don't matter or help? That would be like saying dandruff is an epidemic that could wipe out human civilization. I would see no epidemic or ruining of the integrity of the game if steroids made no difference to hitters.
If steroids are an epidemic and a reason for Bud ruining the game, then that means they help hitters unfairly, which means they helped Arod unfairly, which means his numbers cannot be taken at face value(like you try to do).
Yet you still claim they don't help hitters, nor cause a reason to question Arod's 'achievements'...but have no problem bashing Bud for causing the "steroid epidemic."
Do you still not get it??
Bud's a fraud, and so are you. No wonder you're doing all you can to try to help the guy.
On one side of the mouth you claim steroids don't do anything to help a hitter.
On the other side of the mouth you say Bud is responsible for the steroid epidemic, and use that as one of your big reasons why he ruined the game.
But steroids don't do anything according to you? lol
Get it?
Now we are getting a running total of simple things that you cannot understand:
1. You didn't know the difference between a hit and a fielders choice.
2. You don't know what a fact is.
3. You don't know what the word "same" means.
I'm sure there are a million more, as evidence by your inability to still yet make a valid point in any post I have seen you write.
Sorry buddy, keep trying. Once you cross a first hurdle, the rest may come easy.
Keep to the topic or go elsewhere.
Bud is responsible for the game losing relevance and popularity in his adamant refusal to address the issues surrounding the game. Refusing to implement instant replay and address the out or control umpires that try to make the game about them is only hurting popularity.
<< <i>
Bud is responsible for the game losing relevance and popularity in his adamant refusal to address the issues surrounding the game >>
You cite steroids as a key issue concerning Bud, yet you claim they are a non-issue when it comes to Arod, and even claim that steroids do not help hitters.
So they either are an issue, or they are not.
The double talk you produce is what needs to go elsewhere
I find it comical, so I think I will stick around a bit.
<< <i>If you only address a problem after facing repercussions then you don't get credit for it. Sorry. >>
You said before that steroids were insignificant...now they are a problem? Which is it?
You said that steroids aren't any different than greenies, and you made it clear that greenies have been around long before Bud. So, if steroids and greenies are of equal factors, then how on earth would a steroid epidemic be Bud's fault when greenies(which you claim are the same as steroids), were in the game LONG before Bud came along????
If someone doesn't like it, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
It's not an opinion to say that baseball saw, under Bud, its first World Series cancelled since the war.
It's not an opinion to say that under Bud an exhibition game now determines World Series home field advantage.
Even better is that huckster Selig has been named in a lawsuit brought by Arod. Hilarious!
Link
Hopefully all the shady dealings Bud participated in trying to acquire evidence in the Arod investigation comes to light.
"The lawsuit alleges that Selig and other baseball officials have had one goal: "to improperly marshal evidence that they hope to use to destroy the reputation and career of Alex Rodriguez, one of the most accomplished major league baseball players of all time."
Hopefully this accelerates the time frame in which Bud shows himself the door. It can't happen soon enough!
Link
Seeing Mariano Rivera, one of baseball's best guys, who is universally appreciate (even in heated rival Boston), take a season long tour of stadiums apparently gave Buddy boy an idea. He felt that HE should be as well received throughout baseball, except one little thing:
Everyone knows you're a fraud, Buddy boy. Everyone knows that you oversaw the explosion of PEDs in baseball and you sat back on your hands and did absolutely NOTHING until the genie was out of the bottle. YOU oversaw the steroid era, and YOU will forever be linked to it, no matter how many dopey media folks you get to take your photo shaking hands with 'fans'.
"In fact, Selig said, he would like to spend his last year as commissioner on a Mariano Rivera-type tour of all 30 major league parks, speaking not with baseball dignitaries but with fans and people who work in his sport behind the scenes."
"In fact, Selig said, he would like to spend his last year as commissioner on a Mariano Rivera-type tour of all 30 major league parks, speaking not with baseball dignitaries but with fans and people who work in his sport behind the scenes."
Buddy boy, nobody wants you in their stadium. Nobody wants to give you a gift. Nobody wants you, period. Now hurry up and get lost, and never come back.
An anger management class or two may help.
He was roadblocked all those years(by the players association) in any attempt to get drug testing. Even when the players association was forced to agree(after the congress hearings), they would only agree to a very weak policy(mainly no blood testing).
In the end though, he is going out guns blazing and bringing down the biggest doper and fraud of them all(Arod)....AND he is doing the impossible; getting the union, owners, and commissioner to ALL be in agreement on a subject...the subject of Arod being a cheat, a liar, and a fraud.
For that, despite having some weak moments as a commissioner, good job Bud.
<< <i>The biggest mistake Bud made in his tenure as a commissioner was not giving Arod a lifetime ban. >>
He couldn't even get 211 games. And you think he had a shot in hell at lifetime? Being naive is so endearing.
<< <i>He was roadblocked all those years(by the players association) in any attempt to get drug testing. Even when the players association was forced to agree(after the congress hearings), they would only agree to a very weak policy(mainly no blood testing). >>
Right, because the current steroid withhunt has been ALL about positive tests, and not rumor and innuendo. How many worthy hall of famers have failed no drug tests but are still kept out because of supposed PED links? Bud's 'policy' has been a joke, there's only been MORE PED use (not less) since the advent of testing, and the players and its union did the absolute RIGHT thing in fighting testing.
<< <i>In the end though, he is going out guns blazing and bringing down the biggest doper and fraud of them all(Arod)....AND he is doing the impossible; getting the union, owners, and commissioner to ALL be in agreement on a subject...the subject of Arod being a cheat, a liar, and a fraud. >>
So because you think he's a douche, you personally don't like him, you think Bud's tenure has been a success? That's laughably ignorant. You should know better. Bud has done more harm to the game than any other commissioner in history. He personally not only oversaw but perpetuated the PED culture, and that cat sure isn't going back in the bag.
<< <i>For that, despite having some weak moments as a commissioner, good job Bud. >>
Weak moments? His entire tenure has been pathetic. However, this isn't about his job, your entire post is a jab at me and my support of a player who was unfairly targetted. We get it - you think I see Arod as a hero. You think if you keep hammering away at Arod and supporting this fraud of a commissioner, you're taking shots at me.
Here's the thing - Arod was great to watch, but I, like most adults, don't see athletes as 'heroes' or 'role models'. Perhaps you do; that's not for me to decide. But sitting there repeatedly thinking you are taking shots at me through attacks on Arod is hilarious.
<< <i> Bud's 'policy' has been a joke, there's only been MORE PED use (not less) since the advent of testing, and the players and its union did the absolute RIGHT thing in fighting testing. >>
Is that sort of enhanced performance a good thing or a bad thing? If it is bad, what sort of drug policy should the next commissioner have?