BGS poppage.. Cassius clay, Maradona, Martin Luther king

eagles33 · September 16, 2013 11:41AM

Grades were a little rough but im just happy everything was slabbedThese were all from sets that psa doesn't currently grade. Some are completely ridiculous... Like the Jai Alai card... But some are really interesting to me like the Cassius clay card and very early Martin Luther king card. The basketball card snuck in this sub because all of my basketball cards are in bgs slabs since psa doesn't grade the star cards and want them to be uniform.

Shipping List
S.No # Set Name Player Name Final Grade
7827040 1978 Armada Kings of the Square Ring Andre the Giant 7
7827041 1984 Berensens' Hartford Jai Alai Cachin (Jose Uriarte) 9.5
7827042 1974 Yamakatsu Way of the Dragon Bruce Lee 7
7827043 1964 Simon Chocolates 3 Years of Worldwide Life Martin Luther King 2
7827044 1968 Estampa Pancho Pantera Floyd Patterson/Muhammad Ali 1.5
7827045 1978 Crack World Cup Album Diego Maradona 3
7827046 2009-10 Topps Chrome Blake Griffin RC 9
7827047 1992 Total Cricket Sachin Tendulkar 6
7827048 1985 Poulain Greats of the Game Carl Lewis 7.5

Big80s · September 16, 2013 1:17PM

Chad - I really enjoy the wide variety of cards you collect. It's always interesting to look through your submissions. Congrats on the latest.

Is this card - 1974 Yamakatsu Way of the Dragon Bruce Lee 7 - from the set you bought a while back? I still have the one I bought through you.

eagles33 · September 16, 2013 1:34PM

Yes that's from the same set. It's the card with the green background. I haven't seen all of the cards in the set but its my favorite one so far and the one I'm going to use for his "rookie". This isn't the actual card I subbed.. But it's what it looks like. When I first discovered these I thought they were from 72 but turned out they were from 74.

I'm a little surprised that the Maradona card has never been graded before by any of the major grading companies. I had scans of the album they were meant to be stuck at that clearly stated the year and name of the set. Of all the cards in this sub I think this is one that has the best chance to find its way in a psa holder.

Big80s · September 16, 2013 1:49PM

That is a classic shot of Bruce Lee. Very cool!

SumoMenkoMan · September 16, 2013 2:14PM

Thanks for doing the trailblazing on these sets. I love me some Yamakatsu!

eagles33 · September 16, 2013 2:20PM

Thanks for all of the info and the actual card that I got slabbed. The only other Yamakatsu Bruce Lee I have is card number 1 in the set in I think a bgs 7 or 7.5.

wrestlingcardking · September 17, 2013 1:46AM

Is PSA not willing to holder the Bruce Lee Yamakatsu cards? That would be very cool if they would come around on it.

miwlvrn · September 18, 2013 12:41AM

<< Grades were a little rough but im just happy everything was slabbedThese were all from sets that psa doesn't currently grade. Some are completely ridiculous... Like the Jai Alai card... But some are really interesting to me like the Cassius clay card and very early Martin Luther king card. The basketball card snuck in this sub because all of my basketball cards are in bgs slabs since psa doesn't grade the star cards and want them to be uniform.

Shipping List
S.No # Set Name Player Name Final Grade
7827040 1978 Armada Kings of the Square Ring Andre the Giant 7
7827041 1984 Berensens' Hartford Jai Alai Cachin (Jose Uriarte) 9.5
7827042 1974 Yamakatsu Way of the Dragon Bruce Lee 7
7827043 1964 Simon Chocolates 3 Years of Worldwide Life Martin Luther King 2
7827044 1968 Estampa Pancho Pantera Floyd Patterson/Muhammad Ali 1.5
7827045 1978 Crack World Cup Album Diego Maradona 3
7827046 2009-10 Topps Chrome Blake Griffin RC 9
7827047 1992 Total Cricket Sachin Tendulkar 6
7827048 1985 Poulain Greats of the Game Carl Lewis 7.5 >>

Interesting pop for sure, thanks for sharing. When I get the Poulain Chocolat cards graded by PSA, they label them as '1975-85 Poulain Serie 44 Grands Noms Du Sport' rather than just specifying a single year of issue (1985). I wonder if the set really was issued over several years or not?

Also, I've subbed lots of other different '1964 Chocolates Simon' cards to PSA before and they all come back N9 except for the Ali card. I've called and asked customer service why it would be that they could N9 some from a set and grade another and never really received a good answer. I suspect they'll eventually grade the rest but wonder why they don't yet since other TPG's don't have a problem with it. Did you sub your MLK to PSA and get an N9 before sending it to BVG?

eagles33 · September 18, 2013 2:48AM

I emailed psa about Simon chocolate card. I was told that they only grade the Ali card too. I asked why and didn't get an answer. I also asked about the Poulain card and they just said that they can't grade them at this time. It's interesting that you have one slabbed by psa. I think that the set spans over several years but each series should be specific to a specific year. Post a scan of the card in the psa slab if you a chance. I would be interested in trying to convince psa to start slabbing these as 1985.

miwlvrn · September 18, 2013 3:40AM

<< I emailed psa about Simon chocolate card. I was told that they only grade the Ali card too. I asked why and didn't get an answer. I also asked about the Poulain card and they just said that they can't grade them at this time. It's interesting that you have one slabbed by psa. I think that the set spans over several years but each series should be specific to a specific year. Post a scan of the card in the psa slab if you a chance. I would be interested in trying to convince psa to start slabbing these as 1985. >>

I'll post a scan of the Poulain when I can. In case others are interested but don't want to search the pop report to figure it out, I've got the Pele from that set graded by PSA.

miwlvrn · September 18, 2013 3:46AM

I've got a Euro-issue card subbed to PSA as a cross-over, presently in an SGC holder. I also included a printout of a scan of a card from the same set graded by BVG with the sub. Hopefully the fact that both SGC and BGS/BVG grade them will get them to consider starting to holder them too.

This is the angle I've been taking lately on some of the items I get N9'd on. Get an N9, send it to another company, then sub for a cross-over using peer-pressure to hopefully expand the sets graded by PSA. I'll let you know how it works. In many cases, only worth the cost of grading twice for the purpose of introducing a new set that can be graded by PSA, even if the single item itself isn't worth all that much.

no1cp · September 18, 2013 3:54AM

How does Maradona have a 1978 World Cup card, when he didn't actually play in that World Cup?

eagles33 · September 18, 2013 4:46AM

<< How does Maradona have a 1978 World Cup card, when he didn't actually play in that World Cup? >>

I don't know why they added "world cup" in the description. This is the album it is from. I think PSA grades cards from this manufacturer as FKS

ReggieCleveland · September 18, 2013 9:21AM

Crack is actually the name of the manufacturer.

eagles33 · September 18, 2013 9:53AM

Any idea what FKS is? I always thought it was just crack too since that's what was on the album.

ReggieCleveland · September 18, 2013 10:27AM

No idea, never heard of FKS. But Crack produced sports and nonsports cards n Argentina for decades.

Any idea what FKS stands for?

eagles33 · September 18, 2013 10:49AM

No idea. I saw it listed that way Here

These look like the same cards. I wish i saw these before. These look like the same cards to me. EBay

miwlvrn · September 18, 2013 10:54AM

Can't say I know the history of the manufacturer, but I do own several FKS Publishers Ltd. soccer cards from at least 5 different sets/years.

miwlvrn · September 19, 2013 12:58AM

<< I emailed psa about Simon chocolate card. I was told that they only grade the Ali card too. I asked why and didn't get an answer. I also asked about the Poulain card and they just said that they can't grade them at this time. It's interesting that you have one slabbed by psa. I think that the set spans over several years but each series should be specific to a specific year. Post a scan of the card in the psa slab if you a chance. I would be interested in trying to convince psa to start slabbing these as 1985. >>

Wanted to add a little more info about the 1975-1985 Poulain's. There are at least 46 Series issued over that time, not sure if more or how many more. The ones I know are:
Serie 38 Tennis
Serie 43 Animals and their young
Serie 44 Greats of the game
Serie 45 Trades of the past
Serie 46 Major discoveries

Not sure what years each series was issued.

Serie 38 includes Ivan Lendl, Jimmy Connors, Boris Becker, John McEnroe, among others
Serie 44 includes Pele, Carl Lewis, Henri Cochet, Bjorn Borg, among others

ReggieCleveland · September 19, 2013 3:53AM

Not sure about the FKS. I rarely search for futbol cards outside of the occasional Pele so I can't speak intelligently on those. I suppose it's entirely possible that different manufacturers were used in different South American countries to produce what amounts to be basically the same set. Crack was a major manufacturer in Argentina and I believe had licensing deals with Topps for some sets distribution in the country and possibly some design usage (assuming they didn't just steal them, which is a possibility).

ETA: I responded before checking my notes. Topps had distribution deals with Stani but I haven't found anything suggesting they had deals with Crack. Unless Crack was a subsidiary of Stani. I know Crack produced some sets that had a direct design copy from some Topps American football issues. Perhaps that was done illegally. It would help if we knew what FKS stood for.

LarkinCollector · September 19, 2013 4:15AM

Try this:

FKS Bankruptcy

eagles33 · September 19, 2013 10:10AM

Interesting. It appears that they are two different entities. It sounds like FKS is a company from England. I don't know if the 2 companies had an agreement or if one just ripped of the card design from the other. I'm hoping psa will eventually slab the Crack card. The fact that the album has the date and manufacturer should be enough.

ReggieCleveland · September 19, 2013 10:17AM

Is the Crack card a sticker?

eagles33 · September 19, 2013 11:07AM

They are like the older panini cards. May actual stickers but meant to be glued into an album.

LarkinCollector · September 19, 2013 11:23PM

The Crack cover looks like a ripoff of the FKS albums (several used a similar cover):

FKS Album Covers

I can't tell from the other picture if the checklist matches up, but the card/sticker design looks pretty similar as well:

Checklist

I would guess that Crack had a relationship with either FKS or more likely their Spanish printer, FHER of Bilbao, mentioned in the FKS bankruptcy link.

stown · September 19, 2013 11:42PM

<< I don't know if the 2 companies had an agreement or if one just ripped of the card design from the other. >>

Keep in mind that international copyright infringements were not uncommon back then. There was some enforcement but it was mostly just frowned upon.

miwlvrn · September 20, 2013 1:12AM

It happened all the time years ago. There are lots of examples w/ soccer cards, Venezuelan-issue baseball (not the official Topps Venezuelans but others that were not associated/licensed). Not just back then though. It still happens today. These are definitely not licensed by Upper Deck. The 1991-92 design is poached, and the back of the cards look as much like the 1991 UD issue as the front do.

ReggieCleveland · September 20, 2013 1:21AM

I've seen isolated examples in the past but there was something unusual happening in Argentina in the 60s and 70s. There was a lot of design borrowing going on. I imagine most of it was on the up-and-up since Joseph Shorin started granting licensing rights in AR in 1957.

eagles33 · September 21, 2013 4:50AM

Here are a couple more scans.

hookem · September 21, 2013 5:30AM

Great cards Chad! Thanks for posting scans.

Keep an eye out for another Maradona if you see one for me

SumoMenkoMan · September 21, 2013 9:22AM

Lookin good. Hopefully these can get in PSA holders soon!

miwlvrn · September 22, 2013 1:04AM

<< 

<< How does Maradona have a 1978 World Cup card, when he didn't actually play in that World Cup? >>

I don't know why they added "world cup" in the description. This is the album it is from. I think PSA grades cards from this manufacturer as FKS

>>

Wow, so you were able to remove the Maradona card from the album and still pull a VG 3 grade? The best I've seen is a Good 2 from PSA for a vintage 70's or 60's foreign issue that was removed from an album. What method did you use to remove it? I've tried several ways, from razor blade to steam cleaner.

eagles33 · September 22, 2013 1:31AM

No I bought the card separately.. The album image was pilfered from some Brazilian site. I don't own the album. Just used the images to verify the year and manufacturer. I know soccer cards aren't really that popular but I've seen prices really start to pop. Maradona is a pretty big name that I think most sports fans would recognize. I think this could an important card in the soccer world. I hope to get it in a psa slab soon

miwlvrn · September 24, 2013 11:01AM

<< I emailed psa about Simon chocolate card. I was told that they only grade the Ali card too. I asked why and didn't get an answer. I also asked about the Poulain card and they just said that they can't grade them at this time. It's interesting that you have one slabbed by psa. I think that the set spans over several years but each series should be specific to a specific year. Post a scan of the card in the psa slab if you a chance. I would be interested in trying to convince psa to start slabbing these as 1985. >>

eagles,
followup to the 1964 Chocolates Simon discussion. I had emailed with PSA in the past sending them scans of other cards from the Simon set as they requested but never got anywhere with it. I'm not sure if I ever mentioned to them before that I had an almost complete set in the original album, but as of working with them some more on this subject today, it sounds like they will use scans of all the pages of my album to derive their master checklist and any other analytical info they want and will soon be grading the rest of the items from the set based on the info I will provide.

miwlvrn · October 7, 2013 4:28AM

<< I emailed psa about Simon chocolate card. I was told that they only grade the Ali card too. I asked why and didn't get an answer. I also asked about the Poulain card and they just said that they can't grade them at this time. It's interesting that you have one slabbed by psa. I think that the set spans over several years but each series should be specific to a specific year. Post a scan of the card in the psa slab if you a chance. I would be interested in trying to convince psa to start slabbing these as 1985. >>

Now that I've scanned every page of the original 1964 Chocolates Simon album and emailed them in to PSA, they have all the info they need to develop their checklist and will begin grading the rest soon. Here's the scan of the Poulain, sorry about the wait:

eagles33 · October 17, 2013 7:22AM

Cool thanks. Was that Martin Luther King card on your checklist? I just sent psa a complete checklist of the Poulain series 44 set along with scans of each page of the album. They should be able to determine the year is 1985 by the the album. There is quotes bit of information in the album about each athlete. Thanks again for the scan and the info on the Simon Chocolates set. Here is the thread with checklist and scans of the album Poulain thread

MrDodger · October 17, 2013 9:32AM

Nice Maradona!

miwlvrn · October 17, 2013 10:28AM

<< Cool thanks. Was that Martin Luther King card on your checklist? I just sent psa a complete checklist of the Poulain series 44 set along with scans of each page of the album. They should be able to determine the year is 1985 by the the album. There is quotes bit of information in the album about each athlete. Thanks again for the scan and the info on the Simon Chocolates set. Here is the thread with checklist and scans of the album Poulain thread >>

Yes, I have the album, so the whole set is on there. I didn't type out the checklist, but I emailed them a scan of every page and they can put the list together from there. Here's a scan of the page w/ the King card for you:

BGS poppage.. Cassius clay, Maradona, Martin Luther king

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