Can Montana RC be found in every section of a rack pack?

Largentcollector

Trying to decide on rack or wax.

ChiefsFan1st

<< <i>Trying to decide on rack or wax. >>



I have opened quite a bit of wax, but no rack. But I think you can find Montana in 1st and 3rd section. Ive been told whats most important
is that every card that is in that section belongs in that section. An example of this(the way I understand it) you will not find a Billy Sims
in the same section as Montana. But I cant confirm that. Hopefully someone will chime in and let you know for sure.

Largentcollector

If he can be found in two sections it makes sense to buy racks then.

ChiefsFan1st

Let me explain. The way I understand it, it is MOST likely he will be in the first cell. But, it is POSSIBLE he can be in cell 3.
Rack is usually best due to wax stains and gum stains. I read an old thread here some time ago that touched on this but
cant remember when. Again, I have never opened any racks, so I cant tell you for sure. As far as odds of getting a Montana,
Im not aware of any difference between wax or rack. Only condition. Hope that helps

grote15

I don't collect football racks, but absent a rare factory aberration (which would be consistent throughout all cards in that section on the rack), a particular card should only appear in one specific section of a rack pack. For baseball, the big RCs in the late 70s are typically from the A/B sheets and found in the section closest to the header section, including 78 Murray, 79 O. Smith and 80 Henderson. The one exception is 78 Molitor, which is in the far section along with other cards from the E/F sheets. The A-F sequence reverses in baseball in 1981, when cards from E/F sheets are in section next to header card (like 82 Ripken) and cards from A/B sheets are in far section of rack pack (like 83 Sandberg).

Largentcollector

If that's the case then two thirds of the rack won't produce a Montana RC. Wax might be the way to go the odds are better.

PSASAP

Here's a rack with the Montana rookie on the back:


[URL=http://s197.photobucket.com/user/dgtom/media/81rackback_zpsa6b57890.jpg.html][/URL]

Largentcollector

First cell even on grocery racks interesting.

otwcards

[URL=http://s197.photobucket.com/user/dgtom/media/81rackback_zpsa6b57890.jpg.html][/URL]

And the other two cells feature Payton Manning....

Black00SS

Having opened 3 sealed rack cases, wax boxes, cello boxes, grocery racks, and every other combination of 1981 Topps football, I would consider myself an authority on this on


The short answer is yes...but here is the thing...it does not mean you have "double the chances". The Montana card is from sheet "C" in the 1981 Topps set.
In rack packs (not grocery racks) The cells are as follows:

Sheet "C" and "D" cards are in one cell. Sheet"A" cards are in another cell, and sheet "B" cards are in the 3rd cell.

In rack packs, you will always get more sheet "A" and "B" cards since they are in their own cell in every rack pack. Since the C and D sheets are mixed in the 3rd cell, you will actually get less Montana's than cards from sheets "A" and "B"

In wax packs, in every untampered pack, you will get the "C" and "D" cards in every pack either on top, or on the bottom of the gum. The other half of the pack will have either "A" cards, or "B" cards on the other side.

In the rack packs, If the "C" and "D" cards are in the first cell, "A" cards will always be in the 3rd cell, with "B" cards in the center. If the "C, D" cards are in the 3rd cell, "B" will be in the middle, and "A" in the first cell. You will not find a rack pack with "C and D" cards in the first and 3rd cell, its one or the other.

In untampered packs, I can tell you if there is a Montana in any Cello, rack, grocery, and if it is going to be up against the gum or not .

Hopefully this helps you out....long story short....you are getting 2 wax packs worth of C and D cards in every rack...but you are also getting 2 wax packs worth of B and A cards as well.
Since Montana is in C, and C and D are sequenced together, unfortunately Montana is hardest to pull from these.

A rack case will net you 5 Montana rookies, Wax box will give you sometimes 0, sometimes 1, and sometimes 2 (very rare). A cello box will give you 1 always (if its untampered), and 2 if you are very lucky.

Black00SS

Just to elaborate a little bit....

Montana will NEVER be in the center cell, 90% of the time its the first cell. 10% of the time it will be the third cell if Topps packaged the cards in reverse.

Also, VERY IMPORTANT. Ebay sellers have been putting "Montana sequence" cards on the top of resealed cello packs, since a lot of people know the sequence. A bidding war ensues, and you get the pack only to see that you have been duped. Be VERY careful buying ANY "unopened" material on Ebay. I would estimate wax at 100% tampered with off of Ebay. You may get lucky every once in a while on Ebay, but quite frankly, you are playing a losing game. Please be extremely careful buying unopened on the bay, and know you are buying searched product nearly 100% of the time. Rack packs can be searched without opening the pack....again your odds of finding a legit Montana rack on Ebay is slim to none.



Happy collecting all!!!

jmaciu

I have made it a point not to buy much of my unopened material from eBay. I assume most of it has been searched or resealed. I usually purchase from BBCE or forum members here. I guess I should say that if I saw person from the forum that I knew had something listed on eBay, I would then feel comfortable buying it there.

3BoyzTrading

Let the buyer beware on eBay never rang so true when it comes to unopened material. You must do your homework on the seller! Fritsch is easy, BBCE is easy, Kruk can be a risk as I believe they search their own stuff(I dont think I've ver seen a "factory sealed" rack case for sale from them). I once bught a 75 Topps cello box for $1800 around 1997. I did my research on the seller, ask questions, did more research and everything seemed in-line with him buying it in the early eighties and storing it. The box was perfect and the packs were pristine. Over time I opened half the box and pulled a Yount, Hank and Brett. Possible 9's on the Brett and Aaron. I do want to thank you for the information on the 81 Topps racks. I just bought two from BBCE. I'll likely just keep collecting them and fork over the $250 for a Montana showing.

3BoyzTrading

<< <i>A rack case will net you 5 Montana rookies, Wax box will give you sometimes 0, sometimes 1, and sometimes 2 (very rare). A cello box will give you 1 always (if its untampered), and 2 if you are very lucky. >>



I once took part in a group rip here and watched as someone pulled a Montana from the wax box that was broken. I went ahead and stored them in my closet for awhile as the odds were against me opening them. Well, while moving a year later, I decided to rip them because I didn't think they'd be worth any more than they were. Sure enough, I pulled a Montana. So it's happened here!

3BoyzTrading

One more thing, I bought three vending boxes from BBCE...........and only pulled one PSA 4ish Montana...1500 cards....one jacked Montana....sucked!

Black00SS

Yes, untampered vending is another ballgame all together. You may pull 0 montanas in 3-4 boxes and 6 out of a single box.

jmmiller777

Wow Black, that's a great deal of info. Thanks for the info!

FredF

Great info, thank you.

I'm trying to put a 1981 Set together by ripping unopened. Fortunately, I already have pulled a Montana (nice corners, nice sides, ok surfaces, 80/20 centering, so it will do fine in my set but not a huge score or anything).

Couple questions for you:

A) For wax packs, is the ratio of A, B, C, D still the same as racks? So in the racks, A has a cell, B has a cell, C and D share a cell. So the ratio of A:B:C: D = 2:2:1:1 if you will because the C's and D's share a spot. Is that ratio the same in wax packs? You mentioned that C's and D's are in certain spots and the A's and B's make up the other half of the pack - it sounds like wax may then be a 1:1:1:1 ratio. Better odds at pulling a Montana, but they're likely to be impacted by gum.

For cellos - what's the ratio?

C) Is the ratio skewed for racks simply because they had 4 sheets and 3 cells and had to find an easy way of doing it? It's not that the Montana's are short printed it's just how they made the racks work?

Thanks,
-Fred