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O pee chee vs. Topps grading standards

Good evening everyone. I've just recently started collecting o pee chee baseball and i've noticed that certain 10's posess a very "rough cut" or "grass" as i've also heard before. There are lots of cards like this right now on ebay in a 10 holder, and then theres o pee chees that are perfect in everyway that are also in 10 holders. 1980 is the year im currently collecting. Why such a huge margin for gem mint status? I know for topps a rough cut and screwed up corners would never render you a 10, so what gives? Its definitely possible to have a perfect o pee chee because i own a few..were the technological standards different then? Shouldn't a 10 be a 10 no matter what company produced cards? I would like to here some thoughts on this. Thanks fellas.

Jimmy
Always looking for OPC "tape intact" baseball wax boxes, and 1984 OPC baseball PSA 10's for my set. Please PM or email me if you have any available.

Comments

  • MiniDuffMiniDuff Posts: 1,241 ✭✭✭
    The rough cut is natural to OPC and PSA doesn't generally deduct for it. In fact it is quite the opposite as any time you do see a clean, sharp opc, the first thought is that it is sheet cut. You will see many BGS graded opc's with sharp edges for that reason.
    1975 Mini Collector
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  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,743 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The rough cut is natural to OPC and PSA doesn't generally deduct for it. In fact it is quite the opposite as any time you do see a clean, sharp opc, the first thought is that it is sheet cut. You will see many BGS graded opc's with sharp edges for that reason. >>



    +1

    The vast majority of OPC cards come straight out of the pack with a rough cut. As a collector, I'd prefer to see the rough cut, ta least with 70s baseball issues, which is what I collect. It's still as difficult (or even more difficult) to find gem mint OPC cards from this era, rough cut and all, than their Topps counterparts.


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hi Jimmy,
    Personally, I think the rough cut is taken a little too far. Yes, for authentication a rough cut is fine, but some OPC's even in the 1960's had pretty "clean" cuts.
    I would not grade an OPC with a rough cut a 10, a 9 is still "mint" and you are leaving it open for a card with better edges to get a 10.
    Once you start adjusting your grades to match manufacturing problems that aren't consistent, you are going up a slippery slope.
    Joe
    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • jboxjbox Posts: 408 ✭✭
    It's been discussed a lot and everyone has their own opinion. I personally prefer an OPC card with a rough cut. Why? I don't know, I just do.

    To say that an OPC card with a rough cut should never get a 10 is sort of like saying a card with a perforated edge should never get a 10. (I know it's not a perfect analogy, so please don't write a paragraph bashing it.) That's the way the cards were distributed and there is a certain beauty to it.

    LONG LIVE THE ROUGHT CUT!!!!!

    jbox
  • billwaltonsbeardbillwaltonsbeard Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭✭
    I am admittedly not the vintage expert that many other board members are, but I've always thought that the fact that OPC cards with rough cuts were still given high grades was complete BS.

    The argument of "That's how they came out of the pack" is crap! Cards don't come out of the pack OC? Cards dont come out of the pack with dinged corners and edges?

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,743 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I am admittedly not the vintage expert that many other board members are, but I've always thought that the fact that OPC cards with rough cuts were still given high grades was complete BS.

    The argument of "That's how they came out of the pack" is crap! Cards don't come out of the pack OC? Cards dont come out of the pack with dinged corners and edges? >>



    Apples and oranges. Jbox' analogy is a good one, imo. And as I stated previously, anyone who collects OPC cards knows it is even more difficult even with the rough cut, to grade gem mint cards for these issues when compared to Topps.


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • Gemyanks10Gemyanks10 Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭
    Thanks a lot guys for all the informative opinions. I've opened a few packs of OPC when I was younger and I can remember how bad the cards were..out of focus, print blotches etc. The cards that are currently for sale with the rough cut definitely posess great eye appeal, good centering, no print dots etc. Just to get an early-80's OPC card with good centering and a clean non-printdefected card must be a bigger feat than I thought. And PSA must understand this. I can see both sides of the fence. If most OPC's were cut like this, then it would nearly be impossible to ever get a 10, as clean cut cards seem to be the minority, and then there's the arguement that nothing should be a 10 unless it's legit perfect regardless of how they were mostly produced. I guess pick a side and go with it lol. I still like OPC and
    Ill probably just try to look for cleaner cut rough cuts if that makes sense lol. Thanks everyone

    Jimmy
    Always looking for OPC "tape intact" baseball wax boxes, and 1984 OPC baseball PSA 10's for my set. Please PM or email me if you have any available.
  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I certainly can't argue with anyone who likes the rough cut. I do cringe when it looks like they were cut with a dull chain saw though.

    My opinion is strictly regarding grading, and I just don't think a card with a rough cut should get a 10, a 9 is still "mint" and leaves room for a nicer "cleaner" example.

    There have been many posts showing examples of 10's that are slightly off center or with a miniscule tilt or print problem, that get slammed "no way should that be a 10".

    Like it or not, the rough cut is probably not how the cards were supposed to be distributed and the FACT is there are plenty of OPC's that have nice sharp edges.

    It WOULD be interesting to see two separate 10's auction at the same time with one having a rough cut and one without.

    Cleaner rough cuts makes sense to me.

    Since a 10 is considered BOTH "gem mint" and "virtually perfect" there really SHOULDN'T be that many around.

    Just my .02
    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • I agree with JoeBanzai. OPC cards are given too much leeway.
    You can get a OPC PSA 10 with an extreme rough cut, diamond cut, tilt and even focus issues. A little rough cut - okay but there is no way the diamond cut or OOF should be allowed. I generally stay away from PSA 10's with those characteristics. However, some 10's I have bought on ebay are tilts on top of a diamond cut so they look centered and are very hard to see that from a scan.

    As for rough cuts, it's been my experience from opening OPC hockey packs that cuts were often smooth until 1977 when they were usually rough until 1981, after which the centering and rough cut improved a lot but still wasn't great.
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,743 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I agree with JoeBanzai. OPC cards are given too much leeway.
    You can get a OPC PSA 10 with an extreme rough cut, diamond cut, tilt and even focus issues. A little rough cut - okay but there is no way the diamond cut or OOF should be allowed. I generally stay away from PSA 10's with those characteristics. However, some 10's I have bought on ebay are tilts on top of a diamond cut so they look centered and are very hard to see that from a scan.

    As for rough cuts, it's been my experience from opening OPC hockey packs that cuts were often smooth until 1977 when they were usually rough until 1981, after which the centering and rough cut improved a lot but still wasn't great. >>



    I don't collect hockey but rough cuts are the norm for baseball throughout the 1970s. I have submitted a ton of cards pulled from packs from this decade, both opc and topps, and opc by far is much tougher than topps to find in high grade even with the rough cut which I personally find aesthetically pleasing for the issue. I think psa has it right when grading these cards.


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • Mickey71Mickey71 Posts: 4,259 ✭✭✭✭
    I agree with Joe also. I'm okay with a little rough edge; but when it's really off...it just looks ugly. If an OPC can be found with a straight edge and they can......why aren't they based on that. The 1971 PSA 10 Aaron OPC on EBAY just does not fit the bill for me.
  • habs007habs007 Posts: 130 ✭✭✭
    Great discussion guys.Love the rough cut personally - since l collect 75 opc hockey - they are so interesting to look at in comparison to their diamond cut perfect edge counterparts.I do wonder though if PSA will one day regret their decision to give 10 ' s on the rough cut cards.I for one am glad they did decide to give them safe passage into the mint and gem-mint catagory for the simple reason this set would be impossible to build in high grade without the rough cut cards included - they make up a sizable portion of the total.
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,743 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If an OPC can be found with a straight edge and they can

    Yes, if you don't mind sheet cut cards in a different TPG holder.


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,999 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i> If an OPC can be found with a straight edge and they can

    Yes, if you don't mind sheet cut cards in a different TPG holder. >>



    Some truth here, but if there are no true 10's out there (at least so far) won't this happen either way?

    I don't have any OPC 10's, but I have some nice 8's from the 1960's in my collection. There is also a PSA 9 1968 League Leader card up on ebay quite often, priced in the $340.00 range that hasn't sold.

    PSA 9

    Doesn't appear to have the rough cut. I know it's not a 10 though.

    Joe
    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
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