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Jeter's Defense
markj111
Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
I believe we all have closed minds on this subject. I am presenting this link without comment.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9603949/the-tragedy-derek-jeter-defense
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9603949/the-tragedy-derek-jeter-defense
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"According to two historical play-by-play-based systems, Baseball Prospectus's Fielding Runs Above Average and Baseball-Reference's Total Zone, Jeter has cost his team more in the field than any other player in history, with both methods assessing the damage at 230 to 260 runs."
Yet this guy, because he gets to play in the postseason every year and is on TV all the time, wins gold gloves, proving just how clueless these voters truly are.
<< <i>This line from the article stands out, and should shoot down anyone who wants to defend Jeter as good, even mediocre on defense:
"According to two historical play-by-play-based systems, Baseball Prospectus's Fielding Runs Above Average and Baseball-Reference's Total Zone, Jeter has cost his team more in the field than any other player in history, with both methods assessing the damage at 230 to 260 runs."
Yet this guy, because he gets to play in the postseason every year and is on TV all the time, wins gold gloves, proving just how clueless these voters truly are. >>
What about the part about you being the banned CU member Axtell?
<< <i>Finally, 1985 and I share the same opinion on something...lol. >>
Eventually it had to happen haha
<< <i>He really is terrible....that's why Showalter, Torre and Girardi have sent him out there about 2800 times. He's not Ozzie Smith; but to say he's terrible is just crazy. No shortstop in the history of MLB was a terrible fielder. >>
The facts are the facts, and the article perfectly sums up the casual fan's two points when it comes to defending Jeter's awful defense: his diving into the stands and the 'flip', both of which took place in the playoffs. People remember these plays, but ignore the facts that he has (and for many years) had very limited range and not much of an arm (which is why he has to do that jump-throw thing so often).
Original link didn't work, so here it is. For those trying to defend him, please read it and watch the comparison to a real shortstop in Brenden Ryan before you come rushing to his defense.
<< <i>I believe we all have closed minds on this subject. I am presenting this link without comment.
>>
Why do you believe that? I think most of us are willing to look at all the evidence. It's a good article, but a lot of the words and pictures are going over the stuff we have all known for 10 years: Derek Jeter makes diving stops more often than other shortstops and that he jumps when he throws more than everyone else
Talking about the importance of being in the right position before the ball is hit goes back to at least Tris Speaker 100 years ago
But it does present the idea that Jeter has actually improved his fielding in some ways into his late 30s -- unfortunately not enough to offset the natural decline in other areas that every player goes through at that age. I'm not sure about the conclusion, though. A lot of his poor positioning at shortstop early in his career may have been making up for his weak arm
<< <i>The facts are the facts, and the article perfectly sums up the casual fan's two points when it comes to defending Jeter's awful defense: his diving into the stands and the 'flip', both of which took place in the playoffs. >>
His dive into the stands was not in the playoffs - it happened in July. Either way, it's vastly overrated. He caught the ball about 5' in FAIR territory. Omar Vizquel probably would have caught it while sliding so he wouldn't have to risk injury by diving into the stands.
<< <i>So apparently you can't find fault with a guy without being tagged as envious? That's hilarious. >>
Unfortunately, I have a strong feeling that the only reason you are finding fault with him is to somehow make Alex Rodriguez shine brighter.
Jeter's fielding weakness is old news, and even taking that into consideration, he still is an all time great SS(player). Like any other human, he has his personality flaws as well. However, unlike Arod, he has enough positive personality traits to outweigh the negative, thus the reason why he is actually liked by people.
I'm still looking for a positive Arod trait...can't seem to find one. Anything he does portray is just phony and orchestrated...and he slaps and fights like a sissy.
<< <i>
<< <i>The facts are the facts, and the article perfectly sums up the casual fan's two points when it comes to defending Jeter's awful defense: his diving into the stands and the 'flip', both of which took place in the playoffs. >>
His dive into the stands was not in the playoffs - it happened in July. Either way, it's vastly overrated. He caught the ball about 5' in FAIR territory. Omar Vizquel probably would have caught it while sliding so he wouldn't have to risk injury by diving into the stands.
My mistake. I guess I equated that to the playoffs because they showed it each and every year during the playoffs to show what a 'great' defender he was, how he 'hustled', etc. etc.
But you're right, his play at short is abysmal. He has no range. A minus arm. His winning a gold glove (let alone multiple) is a travesty. Meanwhile, guys like Brenden Ryan, who are truly elite level defenders who just didn't get lucky enough to get drafted by the yankees are forced to hone their craft without a national stage to show it upon.