PEDS in MLB and the MLBPA
mcadams
Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
Listening to MLBPA reps discuss PEDS makes my skin crawl. I was thinking today that current MLBPA head Michael Weiner may be public enemy #1 when it comes to cleaning up baseball. His defense of Arod is laughable. The current players should all be embarrased that their chosen representative took such a stance in public. Just awful.
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If you think that Selig is really interested in 'cleaning up baseball' then you truly are naive. Selig could easily go to Congress and ask for their assistance if he was truly interested in eliminating PED use. No, he only wants to give the appearance of it, which is the one and only reason he has turned the Arod investigation into the witch hunt it is.
Michael Wiener, on the other hand, is quite a different story. Michael Wiener isn't even listening to the people that he purportedly is paid to represent. The overwhelming majority of current players want testing and tougher penalties. Here's just 1 example where half of the Braves team went on record last week. http://www.ajc.com/news/sports/braves-reaction-to-mondays-suspensions/nZFbX/ When MLB players are publically clamoring for tougher penalties etc. etc., but Michael Weiner is still holding the line and criticizing the Arod suspension, its easy to see that Wiener and the MLBPA don't have the best interest of the game in mind. Worse yet, they aren't even representing the players wishes.
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Nobody's saying the steroid users from the 90s were good for the game, however, what is completely missed by the media at large (due to fear of MLB reprisal) is completely absolving Bud Selig and ownerships of any of the PED blame.
<< <i>Nobody's saying the steroid users from the 90s were good for the game. >>
Yes, actually YOU said that above. That is why DRC responded the way he did.
Always buying Bobby Cox inserts. PM me.
<< <i>
<< <i>Nobody's saying the steroid users from the 90s were good for the game. >>
Yes, actually YOU said that above. That is why DRC responded the way he did. >>
Did you even read what I said? Of course you didn't, you're more interested in arguing against someone who has a differing mindset than in actual debate. You cannot differentiate between being good for the game and bringing attention to the game (which is what I was obviously referring to).
I said that the steroid users SAVED baseball (and they did). Baseball was in serious trouble after the world series was cancelled (which was in no small part due to Selig and his owner cronies colluding to drive down player salaries). Without the home run march through the summer of 1998, baseball would be on par in popularity with hockey or the MLS about now. Attendance increased over 8 million between 1997 and 1998, and remained that way through 1999, where it's remained about 73 million on average since then. So yes, I (and I would not be alone) would be correct in saying steroid users saved baseball.
Either you weren't a baseball fan in 1998, or are choosing selective amnesia, but McGwire and Sosa's HR chase through that summer was EVERYWHERE. It was the first topic on SportsCenter. It was what EVERYONE was talking about. It was the first widespread publicity that MLB had received since the World Series was cancelled.
Now you can sit there and say how terrible PEDs are (neither you nor I are doctors, so the medical effects are not for us to guess about), but to ignore the attention they brought to baseball is naive.
Well, it's purpleish.
No, it's definitely purple.
I'm telling you, the sky is red and that's what I've been saying this entire time, idiot.
<< <i>THE SKY IS PURPLE!
Well, it's purpleish.
No, it's definitely purple.
I'm telling you, the sky is red and that's what I've been saying this entire time, idiot. >>
If you, like mcadams, can't differentiate between 'saving' and 'good for the game', then you two deserve one another. Selig took baseball down the path its on, which is one where PED use and the power numbers that followed were the only thing that could bring fans back. I'm sorry you two are too dense to realize that, but real baseball fans (those without blinders on) are easily able to see what's really happened.
Bud Selig, as proxy of the corrupt ownership group, is solely culpable for the mess MLB finds itself in. Had he not colluded with other owners, the 1994 world series would never have been cancelled, and MLB wouldn't have needed to be saved. MLB sold its soul to the devil under the guise of ridiculous home run numbers to get fans back in the seats. Once that spigot was turned on, there's no way you'll ever turn it off. Not until the 9 figure contracts for big bats go away, anyways.
So fellas, good luck with that inane reasoning that PED users are the root cause of the mess MLB finds itself in. Good luck with that 'look the other way' way of thinking that Selig and Co. wants you to adhere to. Meanwhile, real baseball fans know the truth.
Good day, sirs.
<< <i>1985fan,
You incessant comments concerning Selig are so clownish, it's really difficult to take you seriously. You must either be a roid head or related to one of the "greats" that have been taken down by PEDs. NOBODY gives a crap about Selig one way or the other. NOBODY bevery paid a ticket to watch him swing a bat or throw a baseball. I've never seen him on a baseball card. Your repeated need to keep bringing him up is a total joke. According to your bizarro world, when students cheat, we should hang the principals and teachers because they didn't install cameras in every room to try to catch students cheating.
When are YOU going to realize that the players CHOSE to CHEAT??? Nobody held a gun to their head. If Selig deserves any blame, every cheater deserves a hundred times what Selig deserves as far as I'm concerned. >>
I'm not a 'roid head' nor related to anyone of the greats (although how great would that be!) The fact that nobody gives a crap about Selig proves just how good a job he's done in pulling the wool over peoples' eyes in this whole mess. Yes, the players chose to cheat. But where your point falls short is (a) Selig ignored the countless players coming to camp packing on 30 lbs of muscle in the offseason, and (b) the owners doing the same exact thing.
As far as the students cheating, again you fall short. What would be an apt analogy would be the students being allowed to cheat to bring up test scores so the school gets more funding, then, when that funding is secured, for the teachers and principal coming down and all of a sudden start enforcing the rules.
If you're unable or unwilling to accept Selig as a problem (I never said THE problem), then I don't know what to tell you.
I'm not single-handedly blaming Selig and ownership, but I sure as hell am not going to give them a pass, either.
"Operating revenue was cut from $1.87 billion in 1993 to $1.2 billion in 1994 and didn't reach its former mark until 1997." (taken from this story.
You can sit there and scream it was all the players' fault, over and over, until you're blue in the face, but the fact of the matter is that the commissioner and ownership were at fault too. They were more than content to let these guys start mashing home runs all in the name of drawing fans back, only to then reverse course after all the big TV contracts have been signed and start crying foul.
Good luck with those blinders, though. I'm sure those billionaire owners love having people like you, so blind to facts, on their side.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>You can argue back and forth who is to blame but one thing I believe is ALL players, managers, trainers, doctors, owners and Selig knew what was going on. >>
+1
Owners rewarded bad behavior.
Players engaged in bad behavior.
Both sides profited from the bad behavior.
Unless the next CBA includes a punishment of "Contract voided, player banned for life, evidence turned over to federal authorities" for 1st time offenders, both sides are just doing some choreographed song and dance.
Edit to add: Instead of just simply voiding the contract (which just punishes the player and lets the team off the hook), the whole contract gets paid by the team to some charity in it's entirety. Also, the team has to play with a vacated roster spot they are not allowed to fill (e.g. a 24 man roster) for the rest of the season.
That way, players get hosed in that their careers are ended. The team gets hosed because the money they're still on the hook for the contract money and their ability to compete for the remainder of the year is hindered with a short roster.
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<< <i>It's downright comical that you'd rather attack bystanders, even if they passively "allowed" bad acts, rather that focus your energies on those that actually committed those acts. But hey, why go after the murders when we can point fingers at jaywalkers? Talk about blinders (eyes roll). >>
Dude, you continue to insist I am giving the players a free pass. Here's a news flash - I'm NOT. The more you continue these silly analogies the goofier you seem. I simply said that their PED use saved baseball (and numbers don't lie - attendance had flatlined after the world series was cancelled and spiked dramatically in 1998 - that's NOT a coincidence).
The mere fact that you refuse to put ANY blame on ownership and the commissioner is quite curious - no, it's not, its downright idiotic.
<< <i>In the past, when the "basic agreement" has been negotiated, it has largely been the MLBPA that fought tooth and nail against real testing and real penalties. But now, today, the majority of players are asking for more testing and tougher penalties. If the leadership of the MLBPA ignore this, then the players should get rid of Michael Weiner and elect leadership that carries out their wishes. >>
Why would they submit to testing if they didn't have to? I'm not condoning it, but PED use = bigger numbers = bigger contracts. The owners have all gotten richer from lucrative TV deals, so they don't need big home run totals to get paid, so of course they're going to say 'hey, we want testing!'
It's downright foolish for ANYONE to give a pass to any party in this entire mess. The owners and commissioner are just as responsible for the damage PEDs have caused as the players who took them.
<< <i>I never stated that you're giving the players a free pass. I stated that your focusing your attention on Selig, which you are and have been, "dude". >>
Ever hear the phrase 'the buck stops here?' Well, Buddy boy was in control when this situation arose, and looked the other way as fans flocked back to the game to see the until then unseen power displays. He looked the other way as guys who had never been power hitters started hitting 50 and 60 home runs a year. He looked the other way as owners lined their pockets. Suggesting that he bears no responsibility is the height of ignorance.
<< <i>We don't send lousy abusive parents to jail when their children grow up to be murderers. >>
No, but we do send parents to jail for being abusive parents. We take those kids from those abusive situations, we step in and act, we don't look the other way and hope it goes away as Bud did.
<< <i>We don't send their completely jerk bosses to jail for making their daily lives miserable. >>
No, but those bosses do get fired for being inept and negatively affecting the work environment.
<< <i>We don't send their lovers who might have driven them to madness to commit such murders. >>
Like the parents analogy, we do send people to jail for mental and/or physical abuse.
<< <i>We send the MURDERERS to jail. That's why I'll continue to focus my energies on those who ACTUALLY CHEATED. Not those who looked the other way or may have played some part in not stopping it. >>
The fact that you refuse to place any blame on the guy who was in charge is hilarious. This is going to be my last response to you on this, as you are impossibly set in your mindset that only the players should be held at fault you aren't even making sense any more.
<< <i>If you have any proof or even hearsay evidence that owners actually made the drugs available, or even explicitly encouraged the players, then your comments would have some merit. >>
Looking the other way and not acting is all the proof I (and countless others) need to prove Bud is as responsible for this mess as the players are. But you aren't looking for that, you're looking to blame the players and players alone, and for why, I have no idea and frankly, no longer care.
<< <i>
<< <i>Looking the other way and not acting is all the proof I (and countless others) need to prove Bud is as responsible for this mess as the players are. But you aren't looking for that, you're looking to blame the players and players alone, and for why, I have no idea and frankly, no longer care. >>
Sure. It's the same mentality that "countless others" hold against women who wear skimpy outfits and were "asking" to get raped because they put themselves out there to be ogled by men. You're obviously "one of those". Glad to know you are so enlightened. But for my part, I place the vast majority of blame, if not all of it, with the rapist. But you aren't looking for that, you're looking to deflect blame away from those who CLEARLY deserve it and actually PERPETRATED the CHEATING. And for why, I have no idea and frankly, never cared at all. >>
You are a sickening man, you know that? Equating my view that the boss in charge being held responsible for his role to someone placing the blame of a rapist on the victim reviles me. You, sir, are the lowest of low, the worst of the worst. Get lost, creep, and stop daring to put words into my mouth.
<< <i>I'm not putting words in anyone's mouth. You're the one typing your nonsensical thoughts. I'm making CLEARLY applicable analogies. If you can't see that, then you really are "the lowest of low, the worst of the worst." >>
Equating PED use with rape proves what a depraved mind you truly have. I'm done.
PS - I nominate digicat to be MLB's next commissioner.
<< <i>
When are YOU going to realize that the players CHOSE to CHEAT??? Nobody held a gun to their head. If Selig deserves any blame, every cheater deserves a hundred times what Selig deserves as far as I'm concerned. >>
But isn't it our CHOICE on who we define CHEATING? In all communities drug policies are constantly changing. Tim Lincecum wasn't cheating by smoking weed because it was in California; if he was in New York it would have been because the drug policy in those states are far different. When McGwire and Bonds were using drugs, the drug policy in baseball was far different than it is today
<< <i>But isn't it our CHOICE on who we define CHEATING? In all communities drug policies are constantly changing. Tim Lincecum wasn't cheating by smoking weed because it was in California; if he was in New York it would have been because the drug policy in those states are far different. When McGwire and Bonds were using drugs, the drug policy in baseball was far different than it is today >>
FYI, recreational marijuana use in California is NOT LEGAL.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
1) No one likes 1985fan and
2) No one likes 1985fan
Always buying Bobby Cox inserts. PM me.
<< <i>I have come to realize 2 things on the boards recently.
1) No one likes 1985fan and
2) No one likes 1985fan >>
+ infinity
<< <i>
<< <i>
When are YOU going to realize that the players CHOSE to CHEAT??? Nobody held a gun to their head. If Selig deserves any blame, every cheater deserves a hundred times what Selig deserves as far as I'm concerned. >>
But isn't it our CHOICE on who we define CHEATING? In all communities drug policies are constantly changing. Tim Lincecum wasn't cheating by smoking weed because it was in California; if he was in New York it would have been because the drug policy in those states are far different. When McGwire and Bonds were using drugs, the drug policy in baseball was far different than it is today >>
These drugs were banned by baseball at that time. Testing may have come along later, but they were cheating.
The schtick got old years ago, so please find some new material and try again.
Bud Selig: “So-Called Steroid Era” Statement Sounds as Silly Now as It Did in 2010
After A-Rod Ban, Time to Talk More Seriously About Commissioner Selig's Own Tarnished Legacy
For the last time, I wasn't absolving the players of wrong doing, but what they did do (with the silent consent of the commissioner and ownership) saved baseball. Tim McCarver and Mike Lupica both wrote books crowing over how 1998 was so great for the game. McCarver's Book and Lupica's Book.
These links show that I am not alone in my criticisms of Selig remaining silent and allowing PED use to overrun baseball. He sat silent while his owner buddies made billions in rich TV contracts and ticket sales. Then he tried to play the saint, and tried to pull the wool over many people's eyes. Those of you who are so willing to shift the blame to the players entirely are exactly the kind of mush-brained folks Selig has warped into believing HIS version of what happened. Try thinking for yourselves, for once.
<< <i>For the last time >>
You've said that five or six times now.
<< <i>These links show that I am not alone...
...Try thinking for yourselves, for once. >>
So you desperately searched the interwebs to find columnists that had your same opinion of blaming Bud for everything and then lecture others to think for themselves?
Smooth move, you wannabe hipster.
<< <i>
<< <i>For the last time >>
You've said that five or six times now.
<< <i>These links show that I am not alone...
...Try thinking for yourselves, for once. >>
So you desperately searched the interwebs to find columnists that had your same opinion of blaming Bud for everything and then lecture others to think for themselves?
Smooth move, you wannabe hipster. >>
Desperately searched? It took me all of 2 minutes to find those links. Maybe you've heard of something called 'google'? You may want to try it. As far as thinking for yourselves, yes, try it, and stop eating the spoon fed slop Selig and his owner pals want you to eat. It's comical how blind some people chose to be (and yes, I'm looking directly at you and mcadams).
The only thing desperate here is you, sir.
So pick up that lower lip, dry your eyes, and move on. I promise everything is going to be okay and the sun will come up tomorrow. Pinky swear!
However, its your right to sit there and wallow in ignorance. It's apparent you are more interested in personal vendettas and backbiting than in honest debate.
Good luck with that!
The sun'll come out
Tomorrow
Bet your bottom dollar
That tomorrow
There'll be sun!
Just thinkin' about
Tomorrow
Clears away the cobwebs,
And the sorrow
'Til there's none!
When I'm stuck a day
That's gray,
And lonely,
I just stick out my chin
And Grin,
And Say,
Oh
The sun'll come out
Tomorrow
So ya gotta hang on
'Til tomorrow
Come what may
Tomorrow!
Tomorrow!
I love ya
Tomorrow!
You're always
A day
A way!
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<< <i>I'm sorry you're so distraught that you've resorted to thought policing the forums.
We all know how bitterly disappointed and upset you are that A-Rod was exposed as a cheat, liar, and fraud. >>
Pot, meet kettle. Good night!
<< <i>"60 Minutes" has learned that members of New York Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez's inner circle in February obtained and leaked documents that implicated Milwaukee Brewers slugger Ryan Braun as well as his own Yankees teammate, catcher Francisco Cervelli, in the doping scandal that has enveloped Major League Baseball. >>