Posted this on the wrong area
miket
Posts: 17
Is it legit?
[URL=http://s1312.photobucket.com/user/mike1945/media/puig007_zps2ebd0df6.jpg.html]
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[URL=http://s1312.photobucket.com/user/mike1945/media/puig007_zps2ebd0df6.jpg.html]
![http://s1312.photobucket.com/user/mike1945/media/puig007_zps2ebd0df6.jpg.html]](https://forums.collectors.com/home/leaving?allowTrusted=1&target=http%3A%2F%2Fs1312.photobucket.com%2Fuser%2Fmike1945%2Fmedia%2Fpuig007_zps2ebd0df6.jpg.html%5D){kind=link}
[/URL] Carpe diem
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This is the Autograph Forum...thats a signed item...seems a good place to post.
Unless Puig had recent hand replacement surgery I'd say that is a very poor forgery. Your seller left this feedback three times in 10 days in response to the negatives he received last year - "We neglected this eBay store out of our 3 stores. Our fault - won't happen again". And yet...That feedback is seen on Toolhaus.org, not eBay. This, combined with "NO REFUNDS" tells you enough. I see your seller sold a Muhammad Ali for $40...does that sound right to you?
Check out this signed ball on eBay - # 380688241665 - sold by the same seller...
Sorry to bear bad news but you really have to do your homework earlier. Your question posted here or asked elsewhere would be best asked before you spend $. Not buying from folks who don't take returns can go along way.
Best wishes,
Eric
Take it easy. If I had wanted to call you a dumb ass, I would have. I didn't and don't. I was trying to suggest to you that you need not learn by making mistakes like that. Do I find it frustrating when folks spend money without research and get ripped off needlessly? Yes!
Best wishes,
Eric
and in no order...
buy only from dealers who takes returns
buy only from dealers with an established reputation who can provide references
buy only from dealers who offers a lifetime guarantee
buy only from dealers who shows good scans of the item
all coa's must have complete contact information
ALL coa's are worth only the paper they are printed on - it is the dealers rep that is at hand
google the dealer
have many samples of genuine signatures to use in evaluating your potential purchases
ask opinions from unbiased places like this or trusted friends/dealers when considering a purchase
rushed signatures are often a synonym for forgery
become familiar with the pens, inks and papers you are going to encounter and when they were introduced
checks, contracts and other documents like MPA cards will provide the most accurate examples
low priced items are to be avoided generally
condition is often key for resale
letters with unusual or special content will carry a premium
letters written entirely in by hand are of much greater value then a typed letter signed
become familiar with the various types of pre-prints, stamps, Autopens and other facsimiles
become familiar with the subject signers form - "best wishes" or "fondly" and look for those things
the more writing the better; this is often the stumbling point for the forger
avoid items, letters especially, with generic dedications, or salutation, such as "To my friend" etc.
signed photographs are almost always preferred to signed album pages and the like; stability is sought
look at as many scans as you can of genuine items; save in a folder for use when making an evaluation
Marty - additions?
Best wishes,
Eric
<< <i>Only that I don't think EBAY will enforce the "no returns" policy. A person MUST receive what is advertised. If the autograph was advertised as genuine and it is a forgery, the buyer will be able to get his money back. >>
Correct. Received a full refund plus shipping.
Marty is correct - I am glad you got your money back easily enough.
Your question is one reason many collectors and a lot of dealers don't sell recent signatures of players or celebs. There often are not enough authentic exemplars around to provide a base of knowledge. With someone like a baseball player, seeking out sites such as this and other more ball dedicated sites where you can write, you can start looking for other examples and save them. Some autograph sites online have signature studies. Other collectors will also have some scans saved. Some players do signings - others appear at shows or games. The online auction houses and such also can provide images. Just because it has papers does not mean it is authentic - only when you have many examples to examine and they share characteristics can you start to say that. Always assume everything is false and work your way up from there. In time, you will have a small database and should be able to start seeing the characteristics a genuine signature displays.
What to do then? For study excecise, take about 15 signed checks of your own. Have a good friend sign 3 more after signing your name several times to look like yours, same in etc.. Maybe someone who knows your signature well. Then mix them all up and examine them upside down and backward in a Photoprogram. The differences will be glaring - loops, formation, starts, stops, interior shapes inside letters, placement, baseline and so on. The great thing is you can start to do these exercises with anyone signature. Try the Puig again and determine why it was no good. Not just "too fluid" but what else? What character formation was severely wrong?
Try looking for sites like these:
http://davidsautographsignings.blogspot.com/2012/08/8-27-12-yasiel-puig.html
[L=]http://truetotheblue81.blogspot.com/2013/07/yasiel-puig-autograph-signing-photos.html[/L]
Best wishes,
Eric
regards
Mike
Ooh - please tel me where I was vague - not intended. I'll clarify myself.
The links - just bad HTML on my part. Here - to avoid my same mistake just cut and paste the addresses below:
http://davidsautographsignings.blogspot.com/2012/08/8-27-12-yasiel-puig.html
http://truetotheblue81.blogspot.com/2013/07/yasiel-puig-autograph-signing-photos.html
Like many, I do not deal with sports material - I could quote forgery but that is rampant. I just am not a sports guy - never been to a game of any kind in my life. If you can dig up his current values and some exemplars, I will gladly help advise you on a purchase. All things should be in place, guarantee, feedback - all of it.
Best wishes,
Eric
Whatever I can do. Really. Let me please see whatever you buy (before) if you act quickly - (rarely a good idea). With overall and accumulated experience you can do this work in "a night" to a degree but it takes quite a while to get the swing. Soon you'll bed spotting stuff like an eagle!
Eric
PS - for fun (NOT added confusion) read the other thread about the Ichiro Suzuki bat and another TPG. Just don't let it freak you out - those guys all have personal axes to grind - apparently before they do their work - so its entertainment - informative entertainment. My idea is to eventually move the starter collector into a zone of comfortably where he can make at least some purchases on his won without the need to rely on an opinion backed by nothing given buy a business with stock holders who much be happy. You just want an authentic autograph. For those with willingness to learn (NOT big pockets - not necessary), this can be a do-it-yourself hobby to a degree - especially with the stuff I see getting passed these days! I has taken me over 12 years to get here - more - other seem to take the same and up to 20 years and the majority of those either make "mistakes", pass the wrong stuff, or have connections or relations best left alone. If more people educated themselves carefully, you'd see 1/3 to 2/3 or so of all material in collections is bad for an equal fraction of collectors -roughly speaking.
There are things when buying balls and I am out of my element here but will mention them - ballpoint is preferred I believe, certain types of balls/makes/models, placement (sweet spot) and other stuff. Maybe a post in the Non Sport Memorabilia asking about the key elements of a super signed ball - what are the bells and whistles. And how to store afterward. Fading etc? Perhaps you know much of this - I do not.
Eric :-)
Enable your PM's and I will send you a scan of signatures to test you using the techniques I briefly outlined above, if you like :-)
Eric
Did you buy one? I check here multiple times a day and had hoped to assist you.
Eric
Eric
my work load has doubled
Best,
Eric
Eric
Scans in your mailbox. Looking forward to discussion. Don't over-think and have an observable basis for each opinion is my suggestion.
Eric