1975 MINI WAX CASE - 1959 FLEER TED WILLIAMS WAX - BBCE

Dboneesq

Just posted on their Facebook Page. CASE IS SOLD!



FROM BBCE FACEBOOK - SATURDAY ENTRY:
Steve bought two 1959 Fleer Ted Williams Wax Boxes on Thursday. I'm not even sure they went out for sale but they are both gone - $18,000 each!

mccardguy1

I just saw this on Facebook and was going to post it myself.

I saw this just sitting on their shelves behind the counter and couldnt believe the price they had on it.

grote15

Incredible! Especially so when you realize that when REA was auctioning off these cases a few years ago, I believe the average price per CASE was about 12-13K!

Dboneesq

<< <i>Incredible! Especially so when you realize that when REA was auctioning off these cases a few years ago, I believe the average price per CASE was about 12-13K! >>


So the three cases that Mike and you purchased were GREAT investments!

grote15

<< <i>

<< <i>Incredible! Especially so when you realize that when REA was auctioning off these cases a few years ago, I believe the average price per CASE was about 12-13K! >>


So the three cases that Mike and you purchased were GREAT investments! >>



Shhh.

Dboneesq

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Incredible! Especially so when you realize that when REA was auctioning off these cases a few years ago, I believe the average price per CASE was about 12-13K! >>


So the three cases that Mike and you purchased were GREAT investments! >>


Shhh. >>


OOPS! I forgot that you guys ripped them last month!

3BoyzTrading

So does this make boxes worth $2400 each? I think it's incredible what the 70's stuff is bringing. To think I sat there and busted pack after pack and box after box....

aconte

Nice pickup Grote!



aconte

mccardguy1

<< <i>

<< <i>Incredible! Especially so when you realize that when REA was auctioning off these cases a few years ago, I believe the average price per CASE was about 12-13K! >>


So the three cases that Mike and you purchased were GREAT investments! >>



I just looked up the final auction price for the 26 cases that REA auctioned off and the final total for all 26 was 307K which comes out to a little under 12K per box. YOu were dead on with your memory of the auction cost.

MisterBungle

So, here's the question. Is the buyer going
to break the case, or keep it whole?

I can't imagine breaking it, but I've watched
enough ripping here to ask the question.



~

MiniDuff

Well its not a 212351, so it has that going for it. I have busted boxes from this series and they are not the beauties we had here a few years ago, but they are also not the horrors either. Fun break if it comes to pass somehow.

I sold two of mine two and three years ago at 16k per, happy with the profit at the time. A little queasy right now though...

And yes, this makes the new norm 2200+ for a legit box.

gemint

I wonder what that means for the market price for loose boxes now. I have one that isn't sealed and another with a 'from a sealed case' BBCE shrink wrap over it.

grote15

<< <i>I wonder what that means for the market price for loose boxes now. I have one that isn't sealed and another with a 'from a sealed case' BBCE shrink wrap over it. >>



Or for individually graded packs, too.

But my feeling is a sealed case will always command a premium iver a broken one.

MiniDuff

It would be very interesting to know how many sealed cases are left. There were 12 from REA, of which a number have been broken. Who knows how many others were sitting with collectors at that point. BBCE has cracked at least two in the last year and more interestingly they just got two cases at or near the same time, so good timing or the same source. Not too many folks with multiple cases, but the selling picked a nice time either way...

DCanfield

I was standing at the BBCE booth when the deal went down. I believe the same dealer also cleaned him out of 1980 Topps also (maybe 5 boxes?). All the 1979 cellos are gone as are the 1975 cellos. The pickings are getting slim for the weekend! Steve did put out a 1959 Fleer Ted Williams box. I'm guessing about 17k. Last I checked, he had only one 1975 football cello from the case break.

ReggieCleveland

Didn't much of the 75's from the Conlon collection go to the same buyer (or a just a couple of buyers)? My brain is riddled with leftover whiskey from my late-20s so I might be way off.

grote15

There were several buyers of mini cases in the REA auctions iirc, including miniduff and duncan from these boards. But many of the cases as Jim indicated were broken down and either ripped or sold off by the box. I probably bought 6-7 boxes myself and ripped pretty much all of them as they were from cherry batch numbers. I do seem to recall there was also a private buyer of a case lot, so these cases may be from that source as the prices have risen markedly on these over the years.

MiniDuff

The same buyer bought a 7 case open lot and a 3 case sealed lot and quickly parted out a bunch of it. I bought another 3 case sealed lot. I don't know the buyer of the third, though I did hear from him. I believe the 3 single case lots went to different people. the other 7 case open lot went to someone else and was largely broken.

ReggieCleveland

Thanks guys, I think that's what I remember.

MintMoondog

2 cases passed through my hands. One I ripped (disaster of biblical proportions), one I sold to BBCE last year for 19K, the boxes were flipped by them individually within 30 days. I used the 19K to help defray the costs on the huge Eric Roberts Mini set break. I am glad I did because many of those 10s and low pop 9s are not going to be seen again for sale for many many years (IE the Gates Brown PSA 10).

Dboneesq

FROM BBCE FACEBOOK - SATURDAY ENTRY:
Steve bought two 1959 Fleer Ted Williams Wax Boxes on Thursday. I'm not even sure they went out for sale but they are both gone - $18,000 each!

MiniDuff

In the late 80s when everyone was losing their mind over Jose Canseco and Will Clark, those Ted Williams packs were pretty easily found and reasonably priced old junk. I mean heck, they weren't even Topps... woops?

PatrickBateman

The prices being paid for these unopened pieces strike me as insane. The overwhelming majority of the cards in those old boxes are OC and ungradable. No one knows how many are out there. If guys are smart and not cracking them open, then they are not getting any rarer than they already are. Then factor in the chance of reseals, and who opts to drop 39k on a case of OC minis over a PSA 8 Mantle RC or four PSA 10 Jordan RCs or a great 52 T Mick? Heck, one could maybe even find a very, very low end Babe Ruth rookie for 40k. Gamblers can do what they want, but when I'm not getting highly creative with wheels of Brie cheese, rats, and some plastic tubing, I am liking legendary players over unopened all day.

Now I have to meet Ivanka Trump at Texarcana.

sportscardtheory

<< <i>The prices being paid for these unopened pieces strike me as insane. The overwhelming majority of the cards in those old boxes are OC and ungradable. No one knows how many are out there. If guys are smart and not cracking them open, then they are not getting any rarer than they already are. Then factor in the chance of reseals, and who opts to drop 39k on a case of OC minis over a PSA 8 Mantle RC or four PSA 10 Jordan RCs or a great 52 T Mick? Heck, one could maybe even find a very, very low end Babe Ruth rookie for 40k. Gamblers can do what they want, but when I'm not getting highly creative with wheels of Brie cheese, rats, and some plastic tubing, I am liking legendary players over unopened all day.

Now I have to meet Ivanka Trump at Texarcana. >>



Eh, let them buy them. It's just more cash coming into the hobby. That's never a bad thing. As you, it's not an investment I would ever make, but I also wouldn't buy a Yasiel Puig card for 10 Gs like some people would either. To each their own.

3BoyzTrading

I said the same thing when 1980 Topps baseball boxes were around $200 and thought that 1986 Topps football cellos were overpriced at $300 a box. I'm a pack breaker but I see now that leaving those years unopened will have a much better return.

flatfoot816

good job Steve. Congrats

whether this sale sets the market price or not for individual boxes remains to be seen.

congrats to the buyer nevertheless--a ballsy purchase at that #

MiniDuff

key word said earlier in knocking unopened: 're-sealed' The risk of that hurts every sale made by anyone other than Steve and is why he gets a premium and taking that a step further, why "from a sealed case" carries a premium as well.

Now think about how many sealed vintage cases are left. Not boxes or packs, but complete wax cases. Now add the provenance of the Conlon sale. Sure, most minis are oc/mc nightmares and they were always a dicey proposition to crack. But this IS a sealed case and it is NOT the known horror batch. It COULD be a horror, but is not known to be.

If you did not know what folks paid via the conlon estate, what value would you put? What would a sealed 75 or 76 wax case sell for? 50k or more. Also remember if you know anything about minis that the rumor and collective guess was that there would be hundreds of cases in the conlon stash, when in fact there were 12 (plus another 14 loose cases of boxes). Those 26 cases sold on the same night in the deepest depths of the recession. I'm not saying I'd be a buyer at 39k, but I would not assume its a poor investment by any means.

JMHO

PatrickBateman

Not saying it is a poor investment-- just that, in this one collector's opinion, it is a very poor investment as compared to what else one could have in the hobby for 39k. A sealed cardboard box that has a slim chance of containing GEM MT HOFers versus a grouping of say Mantle, Ruth, Jordan, Nolan Ryan, and Cobb is a no brainer. Also, just thinking of my friends who collect, when we visit each other and eyeball collections, we like unopened and all but we are all more into holding and admiring a CJ Shoeless Joe or Goudey Ruth or #311 than we are a box or case. But I guess unopened is perhaps more like a totally separate field, whereas I collect cards. Maybe some guys strictly collect unopened cause it is their thing. I just would always take the legendary old player, 'specially in this era of roids, the old legends seem ever more towering.

Now I have to return some videotapes.

MiniDuff

I can't disagree at all. Anyone buying at that number for any purpose other than to hold and sell later as a case or boxes is going to get killed.
you literally cant yield 40k plus another 5k plus for grading if you hit a lucky case. I know, I have cracked a killer case. That said, good mini boxes have gone from 1300 to 2200+ in two years, with no corresponding move in graded minis, so it does seem to be a pure unopened play.

Might be a good time to hoard mini psa 9 hof'ers tho...

mygotta

To me a sealed case like that, it very well could be one of tens or less. I would suspect it is that rare. And let it sit for another 10 years and it could become the last one. I have no clue about what actually exists out there, but having a sealed one has to be incredibly rare.

MintMoondog

<< <i>The prices being paid for these unopened pieces strike me as insane. The overwhelming majority of the cards in those old boxes are OC and ungradable. No one knows how many are out there. If guys are smart and not cracking them open, then they are not getting any rarer than they already are. Then factor in the chance of reseals, and who opts to drop 39k on a case of OC minis over a PSA 8 Mantle RC or four PSA 10 Jordan RCs or a great 52 T Mick? Heck, one could maybe even find a very, very low end Babe Ruth rookie for 40k. Gamblers can do what they want, but when I'm not getting highly creative with wheels of Brie cheese, rats, and some plastic tubing, I am liking legendary players over unopened all day.

Now I have to meet Ivanka Trump at Texarcana. >>



The idea that we always HAVE to choose between a Mantle and any unopened is Communist/Socialist/Marxist/Nobama in spirit. In America we can have both...just do it baby!

mrpeanut39

<< <i>Not saying it is a poor investment-- just that, in this one collector's opinion, it is a very poor investment as compared to what else one could have in the hobby for 39k. A sealed cardboard box that has a slim chance of containing GEM MT HOFers versus a grouping of say Mantle, Ruth, Jordan, Nolan Ryan, and Cobb is a no brainer. Also, just thinking of my friends who collect, when we visit each other and eyeball collections, we like unopened and all but we are all more into holding and admiring a CJ Shoeless Joe or Goudey Ruth or #311 than we are a box or case. But I guess unopened is perhaps more like a totally separate field, whereas I collect cards. Maybe some guys strictly collect unopened cause it is their thing. I just would always take the legendary old player, 'specially in this era of roids, the old legends seem ever more towering.

Now I have to return some videotapes. >>



How did your new business cards turn out?

PatrickBateman

They have such a subtle thickness (I use "bone" card stock), though for font I am torn somewhat between Pale Nimbus and Cilian Rail.