spot price of silver pretty much meaningless...

rawteam1

just some updates for those following or hope to follow the rare silver bar market...
silver at $20 or below is meaningless as prices are still strong as spot has been pummelled lower...

1st look at odd oz JM bar, the odd oz was most likely why it didnt go higher...

JM bar

and a big number for the engelhard...

Lil E

hchcoin

I was thinking the same thing with the premiums on silver eagles on ebay. I am amazed people are willing to pay $5 to $8 + over spot for silver eagles. I thought $3 was normal but what's normal anymore?

piecesofme

Gonna be a hard sell telling that to some here but I like how you backed it up with proof
The collectible stuff is actually stronger with Spot lower. I recently trimmed back on my 5 oz Engelhards, listed some very common styles here and ATS and barely got so much as a nibble. Even took some ridicule for what I was asking.
Said the hell with it and put them up on eBay as "best offer" auctions and the lowest I accepted was $315, which translated to $287 after all fees for me. A few offered $330, just $5 short of my flat out BIN asking price, which made me feel like I should've been asking more.
I never thought I'd say it but eBay is the place to sell right now. Whether it's newbies that are just ignorant following the lead of what true collectors are paying doesn't matter 'cause the fact remains that collectible silver is stronger than ever even with Spot seemingly bottomed out and stuck in the mud.

I'll add one on the list as proof. Look at what these 2 bars are going for that are horribly presented from a seller that's been on eBay for 10 years but has very low feedback.
This is what happens when a bidder does stepladder bidding on an auction that ends in the middle of the night LOL

PerryHall

<< <i>Gonna be a hard sell telling that to some here but I like how you backed it up with proof
The collectible stuff is actually stronger with Spot lower. I recently trimmed back on my 5 oz Engelhards, listed some very common styles here and ATS and barely got so much as a nibble. Even took some ridicule for what I was asking.
Said the hell with it and put them up on eBay as "best offer" auctions and the lowest I accepted was $315, which translated to $287 after all fees for me. A few offered $330, just $5 short of my flat out BIN asking price, which made me feel like I should've been asking more.
I never thought I'd say it but eBay is the place to sell right now. Whether it's newbies that are just ignorant following the lead of what true collectors are paying doesn't matter 'cause the fact remains that collectible silver is stronger than ever even with Spot seemingly bottomed out and stuck in the mud.

I'll add one on the list as proof. Look at what these 2 bars are going for that are horribly presented from a seller that's been on eBay for 10 years but has very low feedback.
This is what happens when a bidder does stepladder bidding on an auction that ends in the middle of the night LOL >>



POM---Do you have a link to the thread you started when you tried to sell several vintage 5 oz Engelhard bars to APMEX? Your experience confirmed my observation that the market for collectable silver bars is extremely thin and eBay is about the only venue where you can get much of a premium over melt. I certainly don't mind paying a realistic premium for a rare or unusual silver bar but I recognize that it will be very difficult for me to get that premium back without going through the trouble of selling it on eBay where the results may be less than satisfactory.

CaptHenway

On that J-M bar, I wonder if that odd weight has some South or Southeast Asian equivalent?

Over the years in the shop I saw odd-weight gold bars which with a little research turned out to be equal to a Tael or multiple Taels or some other regional unit. This could have been made for the Indian market, or Hong Kong, or any place in between.

I don't have a copy of Krause's "Unusual Coins" book handy, but if somebody does and has time on their hands, they might find something that is approximately divisible into 444.7729 grams.

TD

CaptHenway

And as to thin markets, that is quite true. Years ago when I was seriously collecting coins of Honduras, an extremely rare (had been listed in Krause as reported, not confirmed for years before being delisted entirely) came up on eBay. I bid $4,000, but it went to a retired doctor to whom monem was no object.

I no longer collect Honduras. The underbidder dropped out around $500-$600. What is thaat coin worth today? In a proper auction it might bring $5,000, or $2,000.

piecesofme

PerryHall...it's probably buried somewhere here in the archives.
Like I said though...these were admittedly the far more common varieties I was offering, and still got pretty good offers I thought, and maybe could've even squeezed a few more bucks out of them, but I wanted to sell for the cash at the time and settled just making a few bucks on each. Considering after 9% in total fees I was raped for, still aint too bad.
I was offering them for $295/bar DELIVERED here & ats, and ended up netting $298/bar on average (some lower, some higher, this was the average for all 8 bars) going the eBay route. I'd say I had them fairly priced for what the market is currently buying them for, all be it a thin market or not. I dont care about that because they all sold in short time.
Just goes to show when you offer the more collectible stuff at a fair price based on recent sales of like items, the smart buyer snaps it up, no matter what the venue is.
I'll speak for myself, but I think that's what rawteam1 and I are trying to point out.

Yukoncornelius1

I have that exact JM bar and weight, always thought that 14.3 oz. was an odd size bar.

OnlyGoldIsMoney

<< <i>Gonna be a hard sell telling that to some here but I like how you backed it up with proof
The collectible stuff is actually stronger with Spot lower. I recently trimmed back on my 5 oz Engelhards, listed some very common styles here and ATS and barely got so much as a nibble. Even took some ridicule for what I was asking.
Said the hell with it and put them up on eBay as "best offer" auctions and the lowest I accepted was $315, which translated to $287 after all fees for me. A few offered $330, just $5 short of my flat out BIN asking price, which made me feel like I should've been asking more.
I never thought I'd say it but eBay is the place to sell right now. Whether it's newbies that are just ignorant following the lead of what true collectors are paying doesn't matter 'cause the fact remains that collectible silver is stronger than ever even with Spot seemingly bottomed out and stuck in the mud.

I'll add one on the list as proof. Look at what these 2 bars are going for that are horribly presented from a seller that's been on eBay for 10 years but has very low feedback.
This is what happens when a bidder does stepladder bidding on an auction that ends in the middle of the night LOL >>




Serious bar collectors watch ebay and other auction sites but don't visit PCGS too often. If you cannot find the collector who wants the odd bars you will only get low offers like what Apmex offered.

Like PerryHall said the collectible bar market is thin and depends on a handful of serious players. If those collectors don't need more of a certain type of bar they don't bide.

The auction you posted for two 3 oz bars is a good example of what can be realized on ebay. One of the bars is plain common but for the 4 digit serial number ($300 bar) while the other is earlier (but not earliest) and unattractive (at best a $500 bar).

jdimmick

I get so tired of hearing physical vs paper price. Dealers maybe selling at big premiums above spot, but you as the regular individual go sell it and see what you get, You might get spot or spot + just a tiny bit depending on your location.Most of the time less.

I am not talking about selling to another individual, or ebay . I am referring too, taking to a show or your local B & M and selling some

piecesofme

I am not talking about selling to another individual, or ebay . I am referring too, taking to a show or your local B & M and selling some

From my experience, it's pretty much a wast of time going to a B&M trying to sell a 3 or 5 oz old pour engelhard. You're right, as are all who said these bars depend on a limited group of buyers specifically looking for them. The good thing is if you know who they are, go to them directly. Otherwise there's always eBay and to be honest that's where you're going to maximize the viewability.
I hope no fear that old pour stuff will carry a premium no matter what Spot is doing, I still feel it's better than just buying oz's...although I have had some doubt of that recently, but after being able to unload some of the more common old pours recently, with Spot at this level and get what I got assured me they're still a pretty good investment

PerryHall

Agree with the two previous posts. Rare collectable bars are no different that many esoteric coins where the market is very thin. To get maximum return when selling, you need a venue such as eBay and forget trying to sell it at your local coin shop for more than melt.

TwoSides2aCoin

It's meaning less to some. Sales are picking up, so it must be meaning more to some.

OnlyGoldIsMoney

Below is a new addition to my type set in transit.

At a coin shop its just Engelhard bullion and priced accordingly. 25 oz bars after all are uncommon but not rare. Many bar sizes with the bull horns are common. This particular 25 oz bar with the bull horns is the only one I have ever seen. No similar examples are at About.Ag.

Its off ebay and I paid $30 per oz. Maybe I paid too much or perhaps I did well. What really matters is whether or not some other collector some day believes its a variety worthy of a premium. It was a must have for me as I have been working on a bull horns type set from 2 oz through 100 oz.

Like PerryHall said the collectible bar market is thin and poorly understood. Eager new collectors show up while others are liquidating. Values are ever evolving guesswork.

rawteam1

that is 1 sweet bar, Mark, congrats...

PerryHall

Mark---You grossly overpaid for that bar but I'm in a generous mood and will take it off your hands for your original purchase price.

LochNESS

I can't ignore the irony in that 25oz purchase by the username "only gold is money" ...

Captain, I googled "444.7729 grams" and this thread was the singular result. Pretty amazing, actually that nobody else in the entire online world has mentioned "444.7729 grams" ... anyway ... the Krause Unusual catalog does not list conversions by weight. Only conversions in relation to USD. So it's of no help. Sorry

OnlyGoldIsMoney

<< <i>I can't ignore the irony in that 25oz purchase by the username "only gold is money" ... >>



Maybe not money but its a nice paperweight.