NEWP: first Italian States piece

Pokermandude

My first "hey that's cool / gotta have it" impulse buy in quite some time. I really like the imagery and condition. The price was right too Some quick photos, one set is too dark and the other too bright. I need a new background and/or I need to tinker with my setup once again.

1378-1395 Italian States Milan AR Sesino of Gian Galeazzo Visconti

bronzemat

Neat coin, I can see why you liked it

EVillageProwler

Interesting little coin. What's the green stuff? Is it PVC, or some form of encrustation? Can you try to get rid of it? Your coin would be a lot more wholesome in appearance with much of that removed.

BTW, I'm a big fan of Italian States coinage. I completely understand the attraction. Congrats on the pickup.

EVP

bronzemat

Its usually copper that comes up to the surface when its been buried in the dirt for a long time. Usually lemon juice will take it up.

EVillageProwler

<< <i>Its usually copper that comes up to the surface when its been buried in the dirt for a long time. Usually lemon juice will take it up. >>



Copper? What's the purity of those pieces? I'd have thought it was pretty fine; not 1.000 fine, but still better than .900. Just wondering...

EVP

Pokermandude

I'll have to try some lemon juice. I had always assumed those copper crusties weren't removable. I have a few other medieval pieces with similar encrustations that I'll try to lemon juice on before this more expensive piece. Thanks.

bronzemat

I dont collect these so I dont know the purity but many have copper in them as well as other metals. Many have low silver content and have high copper which gives us Billon.

bronzemat

<< <i>I'll have to try some lemon juice. I had always assumed those copper crusties weren't removable. I have a few other medieval pieces with similar encrustations that I'll try to lemon juice on before this more expensive piece. Thanks. >>



I cleaned a really crusted ancient with nothing but lemon juice. It took alot of time and it was a train wreck. Its much better then the before.

You can see my thread with photo here

Pokermandude

Not a terrible result considering how bad the encrustations were to start with. Thanks for sharing.

I skimmed a few other pages I found on google and decided to go with about a 3:1 water:lemon juice soak to start with. Some people had excellent results on the small green encrustations using that method, though it can take a while. If this ratio doesn't work, I'll increase it bit by bit until it does. I'm using this holed coin as my test subject, so any harm will be a minimal financial impact The green on this piece seems fairly superficial. Some of it actually came off while I was handling the coin to photograph it as seen in the obverse photo at 2 o'clock on my background.

bronzemat

Good luck & feel free to post results if you like.

Pokermandude

After a few hours soak in the somewhat mild solution, I like the results so far. I'll put it back in overnight and see if the light brown areas improve some more.

element159

Would it make sense to use pure citric acid instead of lemon juice? That sounds like it would be a more consistent mix, though perhaps there is something else in lemon juice that helps.

Cool looking coin though, I like it a lot!

bronzemat

Pure lemon juice fresh from a lemon is best.

Still the posted result looks good. You can use a toothpick gently to pry off stubborn portions.

LochNESS

<< <i>Pure lemon juice fresh from a lime is best. >>


So, lime juice!

I have two Italian States pieces but they don't resemble these at all - and aren't as old, either!

bronzemat

<< <i>

<< <i>Pure lemon juice fresh from a lime is best. >>


So, lime juice!

I have two Italian States pieces but they don't resemble these at all - and aren't as old, either! >>



Oops on the lime, it can be either, lol.

WillieBoyd2

Nice coin!

Any idea what the dragon means on the first coin?

STLNATS

Any idea what the dragon means on the first coin?

Its actually a snake and is part of the Visconti family coat of arms. Here's a Wiki explanation:

The Biscione (Italian pronunciation: [biʃˈʃone]; Italian for ‘large grass snake’), also known as the Vipera (‘viper’ or in Milanese as the Bissa), is a heraldic charge showing in Argent an Azure serpent in the act of consuming a human; usually a child and sometimes described as a Moor. It has been the emblem of the Italian Visconti family for around a thousand years. Its iconographic origins date back to paleochristian times, to the biblical story of Jonah and the Leviathan in the act of swallowing (and/or regurgitating) him, a common motif representing the resurrection. How that widely known image can be traced to the Visconti house is unknown; however, it has been claimed that it was taken from the coat of arms of a Saracen killed by Ottone Visconti during the Crusades")[citation needed]. Additionally, a man being swallowed by a serpent but being rescued features in a number of legends about Theoderic the Great, most prominently in the poem Virginal, where the city of Arona, which was owned by the Visconti, is featured.

The figure may also represent the circumpolar constellation Draco, from whose "mouth" emerges the brilliant star Vega, in constellation Lyra (symbolized as a falling vulture in Arabian astronomy; Lyra is near Cygnus, which is the "Chicken" in Arabian astronomy; Jonah may be related to both, because it means "Dove"), or also a symbol of the "coiling" path of the Moon towards the eclipse points.

Nice selection for your first Italian coin. But do be careful with the lemon juice treatment, it is an acid and can have an unhelpful impact if you're not careful.

Pokermandude

It took a while to get around and do it, but here are the results after probably ~24 hours of diluted lemon juice soaking and a little toothpick scraping to get the copper off.

The green is gone, but so is some of the darker toning. It has a bit of a cleaned look, but still acceptable and a bit better overall, IMO. I think it should retone very nicely.

Edit- Lighting may look a little off in the second pic. I took it with the coin rotated 90 degrees off from the "before" picture. Rotated it afterward to match the first one.

bronzemat

That came out really good. And as far as the "cleaned look", dont these medieval pieces get a pass for cleaning like ancients do? After all im sure this spent a long time in dirt too.

Ovecleaning is where it gets to be ugly and this coin isnt.

Pokermandude

Indeed, medieval pieces of this age definitely get a bit of a "carte blanche" when it comes to problems/cleaning. I am quite pleased with the way it turned out. The copper spot removal probably could be expedited by using pure lemon juice (about 3% acid content if I recall) without much/any harm to the rest of the coin.

7Jaguars

Taco Bell napkins to the rescue!!