LL game tonight- just when you think you've seen it all- need a rules interpretation

raiderscott

Finished up our 9/10 year old All-Star season tonight. I'll start off with one of the worst calls of all time. Our batter beats out an infield hit and as he's about to touch 1st- he starts stumbling, hits the bag, falls as he continues to cross the bag, and maybe lands 2 inches in fair territory. He doesn't even attempt to get up before the 1st baseman tags him and the ump calls him out. Needless to say there was some discussion amongst the umps/coaches with the coaches saying there was no intention to go to 2nd. Umps said it didn't matter- him falling literally 2 inches in fair territory constituted intent.

Now for the call that I'm going to need help with. Bases loaded, 1 out. Kid hits a shot to left-center, 2 runs come in, 2nd and 3rd now. Umps out of nowhere huddled up. There's been no appeal play or anything generated from the other team. Umps say the runner on third left too early. They allow his run to count, and instead of 2nd n 3rd, it's now bases loaded again- still 1 out.

My question is- was this correctly applied by the umps? Does the other team need to appeal that the runner left early or can this be an "umpire driven" call. I've searched and searched but came seem to locate the answer. Appreciate any thoughts on this.

1985fan

Since the ball wasn't caught, I don't see how he could have 'left early'. Either he left too early on a fly out, in which all the defending team would need to do is touch third for him to be out, or the run scores. I can't think of any 'leaving too soon' rules. What if he was stealing home? He could leave at any time. Unless it's something specific to little league, I'd guess they got it wrong.

As far as the first one, I don't think intent is needed, if the runner is in fair territory I'm certain he can be tagged out.

raiderscott

The runner can't take a lead, he has to keep his foot on the bag until the ball passes the plate. Frankly- unless it was extremely obvious- don't see how the ump could have been watching 3 things at once. I don't see how the umps can make this call on their own. I would think the other team would have to appeal that he left too early. I they do if say the runner left early on a tag up or if he missed touching a base.

I think intent still needs to be shown when heading towards 2nd. But like I said- a strange night on the ball field.

digicat

<< <i>The runner can't take a lead, he has to keep his foot on the bag until the ball passes the plate. >>



Is that a unique rule to your league's age-group? Seems like it'd basically prohibit base stealing.

raiderscott

You're right- not a whole of stealing if your catcher is halfway decent, but you can't take a lead in any 9-12 year-old sanctioned Little League. I think you can take leads in 9-12 Cal Ripken sanctioned leagues and then travel tournaments have all kinds of different rules.

Dboneesq

One part of the rule seems to say one thing and another part the opposite. I just read it fast, so I may be wrong. Either way you interpret it though, it does not seem like the umpires in your game called it correctly.

LITTLE LEAGUE RULE 7.13

When a pitcher is in contact with the pitcher's plate AND in possession of the ball AND the catcher is in the catcher's box READY TO RECEIVE delivery of the ball, base runners shall not leave their bases until the ball has been delivered and has REACHED THE BATTER.

LEAVING EARLY WHEN A HIT OCCURS.

The rule book takes a full page attempting to explain what to do in all possible situations when any runner leaves early before a hit. I will try to simplify it. It's not easy though. There is one loophole in the rule that allows the offense to go unpenalized. If a runner or runners are forced to advance and have left early and the batter gets a "clean" hit. No penalty is imposed. A "clean" hit means it was a single, double or triple in the umpire's judgment. If it was a hit and an error or an advance on the throw, the batter will be sent back to the base that was the scored value and all runners must go back to the bases they originally held or the one nearest the batter. Any time a base becomes available after a hit, runners will be sent back.

Here are some basic keys that help simplify the rule:

If one runner is guilty they are all guilty.
You move the batter-runner back to where you judge the value of the clean hit. Any advance made by him, beyond his scored hit, is nullified.
Place all runners back on their original bases whenever possible. Put them as close as possible to the batter-runner after placing the batter-runner at the base judged to be the clean hit.
If any bases become empty due to any runner or the batter-runner being put out, return the runners to those bases.

EXAMPLE: Bases loaded, no outs. Batter hits a "clean" double, and tries for third thinking the throw is going home. The throw is cut-off and they get him out at third. Before the hit a runner left early. Guess what? The batter is out and ALL runners return. Because his out left bases empty, you put all runners back to their original bases. The offense just loves that call! In that same play, if the out on the batter had been the third out, no runs would count due to the fact that they could have been put back if it had not been the third out. The really love that call!!!

When a runner leaves early he remains guilty even if he returns before or after a hit.