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Surprising Ebay experience
Kaelasdad
Posts: 1,232 ✭✭✭
I sold a mixed roll of silver dollars to a guy on Ebay. I pack coins by taping then to the inside of the box, so if the box is damaged, nothing can fall out. This was an entire roll, so it was taped very secure. I also package all coins on the counter, under video. So, I ship it off, restricted delivery, priority box. Buyer receives the package, signs for it, opens it, and claims nothing is inside. he says the box was untampered with. And he says just call the post office and get your insurance, and refund me. I tell him insurance stopped the second he signed for the package, and he gets a refund from me upon return of the coins. he starts a case with Ebay and within 24 hours they refunded him and have come knocking on my door for me to refund Ebay. they never asked me to support my side, never asked a thing, just simply refunded some guy because he says the box was empty. Ive tried calling them for 3 days, they don't answer the customer service phones, and now they are sending me emails saying they will send it to collections if I don't refund them--Since when does Ebay actually assist thieves?
edited to say the mixed roll was silver dollars--total refunded was over $660!!
edited to say the mixed roll was silver dollars--total refunded was over $660!!
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Comments
<< <i>Thy really sucks. I am guessing if he got paid off already that it's going to be pretty hard to overturn things. >>
Sorry to hear as I went through this once on a $6K deal and the buyer contacted his Discover Card 89 days after purchase and Ebay/Paypal refunded prior to notifying me of an issue.
It's not done and over yet but will require a few days of major aggravation to get things reversed.
Sounds like a buyer worth blocking!
perhaps contacting postal inspector and sharing the video with them would send a sudden ability to find said missing coins
I've never understood the video part - it only "proves" something until the video ends - then the box can be tampered with, switched, etc.
Do you think it would stand the test in court??
<< <i>If he says it was untampered the shipping weight would prove something. >>
Good point. The box would also show evidence that something was taped inside such as tape residue or a rough area of cardboard where the tape was pull off the cardboard. Did you tell the buyer that the coins were taped inside the box? He may have opened the end of the box and when nothing fell out he tossed the box thinking it was empty.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
-Contact the Postal Inspector and explain to them that you have evidence of packing and sealing the coins securely.
-Call ebay everyday and present them with your case/evidence and try to talk to the same person everytime.
-Check to see if that buyer has had any Negs or Neuts in the past for something similar to try to discredit them.
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
<< <i>Did you tell the buyer that the coins were taped inside the box? He may have opened the end of the box and when nothing fell out he tossed the box thinking it was empty. >>
Possible.
Coin Rarities Online
<< <i>Sorry to hear about this. NOTHING nowadays preturbs me more than scammers, thieves, hackers, and phishers. And most all are internet based.
-Contact the Postal Inspector and explain to them that you have evidence of packing and sealing the coins securely.
-Call ebay everyday and present them with your case/evidence and try to talk to the same person everytime.
-Check to see if that buyer has had any Negs or Neuts in the past for something similar to try to discredit them. >>
I agree. eBay encourages this type of behavior with their newer policies. Just plain sickening!
Has happened to me more than once. If you explain that you packaged the box under camera, then took it to the Post Office and that you have an acceptance receipt showing the weight of the box upon shipping, then the he may change his mind. The camera thing doesn't prove anything since you can remove items in your car, but it shows the other side that you are doing due dilligence.
The receipt is the big one. If he claims that the box was empty, then he will have a problem explaining to a postal inspector why the acceptance receipt is 3X heavier than an empty Priority box. You did get a receipt, right?
If an opportunist knows you've taken such stern security measures he is less likely to commit fraud.
So much so, I've yet to be a victim of such after implementing this policy.
Just curious if anyone knows, if you print your postage via ebay, and drop your package with the teller at the PO, is the weight still checked when the barcode is scanned?
My Ebay Store
<< <i>Sorry to hear about this experience. This is the type of thing that scares me every time I send a package. Recently I thought I was going to be a victim of this type of scam, but all worked out. I think contacting the Postal inspector is probably your best bet, as they will likely be able to access information that you would not, and that you would have to pull ebay's teeth to get them to bother looking at. I hope all works out for you.
Just curious if anyone knows, if you print your postage via ebay, and drop your package with the teller at the PO, is the weight still checked when the barcode is scanned? >>
When I present a pre-labeled package at the window, they always check the weight.
<< <i>sounds like he is attempting mail fraud,
perhaps contacting postal inspector and sharing the video with them would send a sudden ability to find said missing coins >>
Some here say that the USPS doesn't give a rat's patoot about mail fraud.
<< <i>
<< <i>If he says it was untampered the shipping weight would prove something. >>
Good point. The box would also show evidence that something was taped inside such as tape residue or a rough area of cardboard where the tape was pull off the cardboard. Did you tell the buyer that the coins were taped inside the box? He may have opened the end of the box and when nothing fell out he tossed the box thinking it was empty. >>
Hard to believe that one could pick up a heavy box and conclude that there is nothing in it.
<< <i>Has happened to me more than once. If you explain that you packaged the box under camera, then took it to the Post Office and that you have an acceptance receipt showing the weight of the box upon shipping, then the he may change his mind. The camera thing doesn't prove anything since you can remove items in your car, but it shows the other side that you are doing due dilligence.
The receipt is the big one. If he claims that the box was empty, then he will have a problem explaining to a postal inspector why the acceptance receipt is 3X heavier than an empty Priority box. You did get a receipt, right? >>
Yes, this is the key. Obviously the box weighs more with the coins than without, and if the "empty" box weighs a lot less than the acceptance receipt, then your buyer has some explaining to do. So you need to weigh an empty box and a box similar to what you shipped, and compare the weights with the receipt. Then contact eBay again and keep talking until you find someone who understands all of this and can get your money back.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
Did the buyer pay promptly? If so, hopefully you gave him positive feedback, since his part of the transaction is done.
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
Why do you call this a "Surprising eBay experience"?
Doesn't seem all that unusual to me.
<< <i>I'm curious....
Why do you call this a "Surprising eBay experience"?
Doesn't seem all that unusual to me. >>
Jeeze Louise, didn't/doesn't eBay DO ANY investigation at all?
It is just so incredibly easy for one to steal goods on Ebay. How many such threads have we seen? How many threads have involved sellers with 100% Pos FB, many hundreds or thousands of positive feedbacks, for many years - a perfect track record - this happens and Ebay just decides against the seller w/no judgement whatsoever? As I said in another thread, the fees keep going up, the service gets worse and we keep buying and selling on Ebay as there is no real competition. What a mess.
Don't stop with with just Ebay. If PayPal was used they will have a better record of whether or not this guy has a history. They also take into consideration the sellers past performance. You should still be able to file an insurance claim with the post office. They will give you a form that the recipient needs to sign saying the package was empty. This guy sounds like someone I would like to block.
<< <i>Don't stop with with just Ebay. If PayPal was used they will have a better record of whether or not this guy has a history. They also take into consideration the sellers past performance. You should still be able to file an insurance claim with the post office. They will give you a form that the recipient needs to sign saying the package was empty. This guy sounds like someone I would like to block. >>
I don't know if the USPS will even consider an insurance claim that's been delivered. I'd give the buyer a chance to come clean and then try the fraud route. I wonder if the guy's carrier would remember if the box was heavy.
<< <i>I called the title "surprising" because had I titled it "Ebay steals from sellers", they would have locked it down. The guy never offered any assistance in the case of someone who was innocent and wanted to help me out--didn't keep the box, didn't offer to go to his PO, nothing, just hey, empty box, give me a refund. Then straight to Ebay when I said return the coins and youll get the refund. he said the box was untampered with and had some bubble wrap in it. I use online USPS and ship in priority boxes with no weight requirements, so the box is not weighed upon shipping. This was a full roll of morgan/peace dollars so it would be hard to miss when in your hand. Ebay has said they made the decision, I need to repay them, end of story. even though they say they have online assistance, they don't, they say they have an appeal policy--they don't, and they don't answer their phone. I did leave him positive feedback, only type I could leave you know, mentioned the missing coins thing and that he was a crook though. >>
Why did you sell them on eBay when you could have easily sold them on the BST here and avoid the eBay and Paypal fees?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
Why did you sell them on eBay when you could have easily sold them on the BST here and avoid the eBay and Paypal fees? >>
Uh, and the loss of $660 also.
I am not saying to not pursue this as it is a lot of money, but what I am saying is don't be surprised if they do not reverse their decision.
Just my 2 cents
<< <i>I called the title "surprising" because had I titled it "Ebay steals from sellers", they would have locked it down. The guy never offered any assistance in the case of someone who was innocent and wanted to help me out--didn't keep the box, didn't offer to go to his PO, nothing, just hey, empty box, give me a refund. Then straight to Ebay when I said return the coins and youll get the refund. he said the box was untampered with and had some bubble wrap in it. I use online USPS and ship in priority boxes with no weight requirements, so the box is not weighed upon shipping. This was a full roll of morgan/peace dollars so it would be hard to miss when in your hand. Ebay has said they made the decision, I need to repay them, end of story. even though they say they have online assistance, they don't, they say they have an appeal policy--they don't, and they don't answer their phone. I did leave him positive feedback, only type I could leave you know, mentioned the missing coins thing and that he was a crook though. >>
Next time I'd take the package to the PO and ask them to weigh it and get a receipt that has the tracking number AND the weight on it.
You hate to hear this happen to anyone.
I still think you should speak to your local PO manager about the situation. They have a lot experience in these situations. If this guy thinks that you have some recourse he may change his story. Don't give up. Have you tried to make an appeal through PayPal?
It would be nice to know this guys Ebay ID. I bet your not the only one that he has pulled this on.
that is the phone# to get a human being on the phone who works for eBay.
Erik
<< <i>
<< <i>I called the title "surprising" because had I titled it "Ebay steals from sellers", they would have locked it down. The guy never offered any assistance in the case of someone who was innocent and wanted to help me out--didn't keep the box, didn't offer to go to his PO, nothing, just hey, empty box, give me a refund. Then straight to Ebay when I said return the coins and youll get the refund. he said the box was untampered with and had some bubble wrap in it. I use online USPS and ship in priority boxes with no weight requirements, so the box is not weighed upon shipping. This was a full roll of morgan/peace dollars so it would be hard to miss when in your hand. Ebay has said they made the decision, I need to repay them, end of story. even though they say they have online assistance, they don't, they say they have an appeal policy--they don't, and they don't answer their phone. I did leave him positive feedback, only type I could leave you know, mentioned the missing coins thing and that he was a crook though. >>
Next time I'd take the package to the PO and ask them to weigh it and get a receipt that has the tracking number AND the weight on it. >>
"All I got from the seller was an empty box with a rock taped inside."
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>"All I got from the seller was an empty box with a rock taped inside." >>
Exactly my point!! Bottom line, there is no way to prove that the coins where even in the box. Sure you can try and involve the postal inspector but so what. That will not change the fact that it is the customers word vs the Seller. In the world of eBay, Paypal, and if need be credit card charge backs the customer will always win. As a business man, it is just the cost of doing business sometimes.
PayPal investigated the issue and asked me to go to the Police for a report.
They released my funds promptly after that.
If the buyer played this game for $660, he may have done it before for either more or less money.
Does his/her feedback history seem ok?
<< <i>
<< <i>"All I got from the seller was an empty box with a rock taped inside." >>
Exactly my point!! Bottom line, there is no way to prove that the coins where even in the box. Sure you can try and involve the postal inspector but so what. That will not change the fact that it is the customers word vs the Seller. In the world of eBay, Paypal, and if need be credit card charge backs the customer will always win. As a business man, it is just the cost of doing business sometimes. >>
Couldn't you take your unsealed package to the post office and let the postal clerk inspect the merchandise and then seal the package for you? Get a receipt and have the postal clerk sign the receipt. My post office knows me and they would have no problem doing this for me but I would go there during their slow periods.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Couldn't you take your unsealed package to the post office and let the postal clerk inspect the merchandise and then seal the package for you? Get a receipt and have the postal clerk sign the receipt. My post office knows me and they would have no problem doing this for me but I would go there during their slow periods. >>
Wow, if I tried that with the volume that I ship it would take me hours at the post office. Not to mention, it is not the post office clerks job to verify the contents of my packages. It is an interesting thought in theory but not very practical.
I guess on a case by case basis maybe but even then, I would love to meet the mail clerk that understands what they are looking at when I start showing them coins.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I called the title "surprising" because had I titled it "Ebay steals from sellers", they would have locked it down. The guy never offered any assistance in the case of someone who was innocent and wanted to help me out--didn't keep the box, didn't offer to go to his PO, nothing, just hey, empty box, give me a refund. Then straight to Ebay when I said return the coins and youll get the refund. he said the box was untampered with and had some bubble wrap in it. I use online USPS and ship in priority boxes with no weight requirements, so the box is not weighed upon shipping. This was a full roll of morgan/peace dollars so it would be hard to miss when in your hand. Ebay has said they made the decision, I need to repay them, end of story. even though they say they have online assistance, they don't, they say they have an appeal policy--they don't, and they don't answer their phone. I did leave him positive feedback, only type I could leave you know, mentioned the missing coins thing and that he was a crook though. >>
Next time I'd take the package to the PO and ask them to weigh it and get a receipt that has the tracking number AND the weight on it. >>
"All I got from the seller was an empty box with a rock taped inside." >>
Except that the buyer doesn't know that you know the weight of it. How can an empty box have a rock in it? The idea is to get him to change his story when he says he got nuttin but an empty box and the shipping weight shows that it weighed a pound. Hopefully an inconsistent or changing story might convince smoeone with a brain at eBay that the recipient is being dishonest.
<< <i>Since when does Ebay actually assist thieves? >>
Unfortunately, if one or two recent horror stories I've read are true, it would seem that it does happen, periodically. Probably not deliberately, but as a result of red tape... one hopes.
Kaelasdad, I hope you get satisfaction. My gut wrenches a little when I read these tales.
I've eaten maybe $150-200 this year in "lost" eBay shipments, but both of those were overseas. (Edit to add- and both might have been legitimately lost. But one way or another, somebody got some stuff for free and I got stuck.)
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
Is there a way you can file a mail fraud claim against this buyer who ripped you off? In the old days you could neg the guy (and a possible neg might have been a deterrent) and people could be warned. If he is a seller, why not buy some cheap stuff from him and neg him on every one of them? A guy in the coin club did this with someone using his buying account.
Perhaps a threatening letter to you thief buyer from your attorney reminding him mail fraud is a federal offense.....