What IF PSA Graded the Fronts and the Backs Independently?
MrSnuffleupagus
Posts: 689
I am not trying to get into the technicalities of why this can't be done. I am NOT even suggesting PSA do this because there would be WAY to many issues to deal with at this point in time.
What IF PSA graded card fronts and backs separately with the current grading criteria of the fronts only? For example a current card that Grades PSA 9 that has just awful centering on the back could theoretically become a PSA 10 / 7 if the fronts and backs were graded independently of each other. A card could even get graded a 9 on the front and a 1 on the back if there was some type of serious issue with the reverse side. Would you like it or hate it if PSA gave grades to the fronts and the back independently of each other? Why and is your perspective from the Buyers or Sellers standpoint?
What IF PSA graded card fronts and backs separately with the current grading criteria of the fronts only? For example a current card that Grades PSA 9 that has just awful centering on the back could theoretically become a PSA 10 / 7 if the fronts and backs were graded independently of each other. A card could even get graded a 9 on the front and a 1 on the back if there was some type of serious issue with the reverse side. Would you like it or hate it if PSA gave grades to the fronts and the back independently of each other? Why and is your perspective from the Buyers or Sellers standpoint?
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Ralph
<< <i>Don't give them any ideas. Next we will have grades for both sides, qualifiers on one side only, and perhaps the chance for the .5 bump for the side without the qualifier. >>
Don't worry (LOL). Its not feasible to implement. I was just curious to see how buyers and sellers would feel if that's the way grading was done.
no. wait. i didn't just say that.
<< <i>could happen. if the "best of the best" guys aren't satisfied with the best of the best, they will demand an opportunity to own the "very best of the best of the best cuz the back is perfect, too!" and rule the new Double-Sided Registry.
no. wait. i didn't just say that. >>
Don't make me break out a new Pandora's Box!
As a buyer, I think I would like it. I waste a lot of time asking for and waiting for back scans only to be horrified by the back of the card. Also, some cards I really want are not very expensive. I hate to and don't typically ask for back scans of cheap cards. I just end up rolling the dice at times.
I think it would be a duel edged sword for a seller.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>
<< <i>could happen. if the "best of the best" guys aren't satisfied with the best of the best, they will demand an opportunity to own the "very best of the best of the best cuz the back is perfect, too!" and rule the new Double-Sided Registry.
no. wait. i didn't just say that. >>
Don't make me break out a new Pandora's Box!
As a buyer, I think I would like it. I waste a lot of time asking for and waiting for back scans only to be horrified by the back of the card. Also, some cards I really want are not very expensive. I hate to and don't typically ask for back scans of cheap cards. I just end up rolling the dice at times.
I think it would be a duel edged sword for a seller. >>
as a seller, i made it my policy to show a scan of the back of all my PSA graded cards. it may have cost me a few bucks at times, but at least there didn't seem to be any doubts on behalf of the buyers as to what they were receiving.
as a buyer/collector, i absolutely would appreciate a crisp, clean well-centered back to compliment an equally high quality card front. i don't believe all aspects of eye appeal necessarily apply to only the front.
and it wouldn't surprise me at all if someday the quality of a vintage card back became a greater point of contention to differentiate between overall high quality examples.
some would call it progress.
<< <i>If they held the reverse of the card to the same criteria as the front, there would be very few 1973 Topps baseball PSA 9s. >>
I think it would actually make more 9's and 10's The backs would not be bumping down the grade of cards anymore. Each side would stand on its own. A gum stain on the back would have no bearing on the grade of the front either. You may end up with more 10/9OC cards. For gum stained cards you could see 9/7ST as the grade.
<< <i>You should submit this idea to Beckett. Between BCCG and SNUFFLE they'll corner the market on 9 and 10 grade grab bag cards. >>
I can see how it would add additional information about the card to the slab. It would greatly eliminate the possibility of purchasing a 9 on eBay and then being horrified once its delivered and you look at the back. Can you please explain why that would be bad, even if it did create more 9 and 10 fronts? It is often difficult to get to see the back of inexpensive cards you need. I would pay a premium on a theoretical 9/9 vs a 9/7. On the flip side, it would make some existing 9's less valuable because even without a scan of the back, horrific backs can't hide. Again... I just don't see how more information is bad... but I am talking from a buyers perspective.
Also... Independently grading the front and back does not change the card. I do not understand how it would create 'grab bag cards'. Unless you are talking about it making some existing 9's worth much less because the back is hiding behind the one grade on the front of the slab. I am sure that would happen, but, it would also create some super premium 9's too. Can you please elaborate on your 'grab bag cards' theory?
<< <i>You said it would create more 9's and 10's. All it does it create a different kind of "qualified" 9 and 10 grade card. Real 9 and 10 buyers won't want some silly grade of 10 / 7 or 9 / 3 anymore than they'd want a card with a current PSA qualifier. The biggest market for the 9 and 10 problem cards will be the same people who are attracted to the BCCG grading scale. >>
Again, this was a theoretical question about IF cards were graded this way, but, are you now saying 'Real 9 and 10 buyers' would not want to buy a vintage mantle, mays or aaron card that the front would have a grade of 9 and the back would have a grade of 5 because of some flaw if that's the way all cards were graded? Where that same card now has one grade of a 5 because of that very flaw? Its the same card, you would just have more information on the slab.
Also... what the heck is a 'REAL 9 and 10 buyer'? Are you talking about those people who just buy the grade and don't care what the back looks like? If you are talking about the opposite, those people would only want 9/9's and they sure would start paying a premium because of scarcity! Also, IF this was the way cards were graded all conceptions and misconceptions would have evolved differently. But anyway, what exactly IS a 'real 9 and 10 buyer'?
<< <i>this was attempted with a coin grading service over 20 years ago and failed miserably >>
Just curious, how often does one buy an MS69 graded coin that when gets delivered has its back horrifically off center? I would hope the mint has better QC standards then Topps!
When you try and put together a set of cards and you have hundreds of inexpensive commons to buy you end up just hoping for the best on the flip side sometimes. I find far to many times for my liking with cards you end up with Beauty and the Beast. But that's just my experience and opinion. I would hope the dynamics of the two hobbies don't necessarily coordinate in that way for comparison purposes. I only dabble in modern bullion coins, so I am no expert on the coin world. If you are an expert in coins I would have to defer to your opinion.
<< <i>
<< <i>If they held the reverse of the card to the same criteria as the front, there would be very few 1973 Topps baseball PSA 9s. >>
I think it would actually make more 9's and 10's The backs would not be bumping down the grade of cards anymore. Each side would stand on its own. A gum stain on the back would have no bearing on the grade of the front either. You may end up with more 10/9OC cards. For gum stained cards you could see 9/7ST as the grade. >>
What I meant was if PSA required both the back and front to meet the front criteria to receive the grade (e.g., 60-40 on both front and back for a PSA 9). Certainly splitting the fronts and backs would yield more 9s and 10s, especially if it allowed for stains. However, I wouldn't purchase such cards.
<< <i>A real 9 or 10 buyer is a collector who only wants to buy real 9 or 10 grade cards. You can't trick them into buying qualified cards. >>
Even if the back is centered 90/10 on a 9? Is 90/10 centering on the back ok for 'real 9 buyers'? Do 'real 9 buyers' not care about the centering on the back as long as it is 90/10 or better? Or do 'Real 9 Buyers' try to avoid 'real 9's' like that? I think 'real 9 buyers' get tricked into buying those 'real 9' cards sometimes.