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Posnanski on Pettitte and the HOF
markj111
Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
http://joeposnanski.blogspot.com/2013/06/andy-pettitte-and-van-doren-gene.html
Excerpt:
For instance, you have undoubtedly heard over and over that Andy Pettitte is a great postseason pitcher. The reputation is so entrenched that when some people see Pettitte’s name it is literally the first thing they think. The reputation is that when October comes around, Andy Pettitte transforms himself from good pitcher into Grittyman -- he turns up the craftiness knob, takes a few gutsy pills, does some gamer calisthenics and pitches above himself.
So, it’s quite a shock when the statistics show that Andy Pettitte is EXACTLY the same pitcher in the postseason that he is in the regular season. I mean, considering the math, it’s almost impossible for these numbers to be closer.
Pettitte during season: .633 win pct., 3.85 ERA, 2.37 strikeout to walk.
Pettitte during postseason: .633 win pct. 3.81 ERA, 2.41 strikeout to walk.
Excerpt:
For instance, you have undoubtedly heard over and over that Andy Pettitte is a great postseason pitcher. The reputation is so entrenched that when some people see Pettitte’s name it is literally the first thing they think. The reputation is that when October comes around, Andy Pettitte transforms himself from good pitcher into Grittyman -- he turns up the craftiness knob, takes a few gutsy pills, does some gamer calisthenics and pitches above himself.
So, it’s quite a shock when the statistics show that Andy Pettitte is EXACTLY the same pitcher in the postseason that he is in the regular season. I mean, considering the math, it’s almost impossible for these numbers to be closer.
Pettitte during season: .633 win pct., 3.85 ERA, 2.37 strikeout to walk.
Pettitte during postseason: .633 win pct. 3.81 ERA, 2.41 strikeout to walk.
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Comments
Admitted to using HGH on two occasions in 2002 and again in 2004. Then squealed on his best friend.
What a guy! Wikipedia says he is a "devout Christian". Sounds like he is more of a devout hypocrite to me.
Joe
For me, I am not that impressed when a player does way better in "big" games or "big" ABs or whatever. What were they doing during those other games? Didn't they think they were important? Now, a guy like Joe Montana did very good in regular season, post season and Super Bowls. Of course, he had a few rough playoff games where his OL didn't protect him well, etc.
Just in general it gets to me when they brag about this guy hits .320 with runners on base or .240 otherwise or whatever.
JJacks
What happens when you adjust those statistics for the strength of the opponents? The postseason is only against the very best teams in the league, while the regular season is against all teams
The real issue when it comes to the Hall-of-Fame is how far below Schilling he is
OK
Joe
(I have wondered why overcoming drug abuse to be a productive member of the workforce is seen as highly positive in every area except for professional sports)
<< <i>What happens when you adjust those statistics for the strength of the opponents? The postseason is only against the very best teams in the league, while the regular season is against all teams >>
That's a dang good question. Paging skin......
<< <i>Very few people do; though we do know that the Hall-of-Fame voters are obviously among those very few
(I have wondered why overcoming drug abuse to be a productive member of the workforce is seen as highly positive in every area except for professional sports) >>
I would say because in the general workforce a person with a drug problem that is part of their personal life, it started out as social use and gradually got out of hand. Their drug use also doesn't necessarily affect their job performance.
Athletes are knowingly and intentionally cheating at their profession from day one of their use.
Joe
<< <i>Athletes are knowingly and intentionally cheating at their profession from day one of their use. >>
A lot of people would say if someone in the general workforce shows up to their job after using drugs they are cheating the employer
<< <i>Very few people do; though we do know that the Hall-of-Fame voters are obviously among those very few
(I have wondered why overcoming drug abuse to be a productive member of the workforce is seen as highly positive in every area except for professional sports) >>
What makes you say that overcoming drug abuse isn't lauded in professional sports? Assuming that Pettitte is, in fact, now clean, I think every baseball fan appreciates the fact that he's no longer using.
<< <i>
<< <i>Athletes are knowingly and intentionally cheating at their profession from day one of their use. >>
A lot of people would say if someone in the general workforce shows up to their job after using drugs they are cheating the employer >>
Big difference in taking drugs on the job and in your free time. If you smoke a joint on Friday after work, you might still test positive on Monday. I doubt that you are cheating the employer then. Of course anyone under the influence at work is cheating the employer. Ballplayers doing PEDS are cheating the fans and the integrity of the game they play, like it or not they are role models and held to a higher standard than most of the general workforce.
Most chemically dependent people are very careful to be clean at work, after all without their jobs the won't be able to afford their drugs. Of course this can change as the persons addiction progresses.
As I stated there is a big difference between social use on your own time and drug use on the job.
I also applaud anyone who gets clean/sober. Squealing on your friends is NOT part of recovery.
Joe
The only reason people even discuss this is because he was fortunate to be on so many postseason teams. Career WHIP of 1.35 and ERA of 3.85 aren't exactly stellar. The guy's had a nice career and made a boatload of money, but in no way, shape, or form is this guy deserving of the hall.
<< <i>He pitched well in some important games.
Admitted to using HGH on two occasions in 2002 and again in 2004. Then squealed on his best friend.
What a guy! Wikipedia says he is a "devout Christian". Sounds like he is more of a devout hypocrite to me.
Joe >>
He also had a girlfriend in New York, which is the reason he moved to Houston. His wife forced him to be closer to home.
<< <i>No way he's a hall of famer, and it has nothing to do with his admitted PED use. One top 3 finish for Cy Young (and no wins). 187th all time in wins above replacement.
The only reason people even discuss this is because he was fortunate to be on so many postseason teams. Career WHIP of 1.35 and ERA of 3.85 aren't exactly stellar. The guy's had a nice career and made a boatload of money, but in no way, shape, or form is this guy deserving of the hall. >>
What this guy said. Seriously, this guy has rarely been an elite pitcher. Outside of one year in Houston - thank you, HGH/roids - and one year early in his career, he's just been a solid guy. Lots of wins, sure. But HALF of his career has been seasons with ERAs over 4.00. C'mon.
<< <i>
<< <i>He pitched well in some important games.
Admitted to using HGH on two occasions in 2002 and again in 2004. Then squealed on his best friend.
What a guy! Wikipedia says he is a "devout Christian". Sounds like he is more of a devout hypocrite to me.
Joe >>
He also had a girlfriend in New York, which is the reason he moved to Houston. His wife forced him to be closer to home. >>
Under some circumstances, I don't really care about peoples private lives, but when they broadcast loud and clear on how "devout" they are, this opens them up to closer scrutiny.
Basically Pettitte is a $cumbag, and NO even if he had a clean record, he was not good enough for the HOF.
Joe
When it comes to Yankee HOFers, yes he has the wins. Yes, he has the stats and the post season glory. But so does Bernie Williams. So does Paul O'Neill. Nobody considers either of them HOFers. And Pettite has the HGH admission.
Pettite has little to no chance at the HOF. Guidry is a better option as a HOFer.
In comparison to pitchers during his time, he pitched during the era of Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Pedro, Shilling, Johnson, and to a lesser extent Mussina. All of them are viewed more favorably than Pettite.
Add in the fact that Mariano Rivera is a sure lock HOFer and a closer from the same team. Wonder if that will have an impact on Pettites chances.