Unopened collectors do I have this wrong?

DCanfield

I recently saw this auction on ebay with the following description:

"This is a 1982 Topps Baseball Rac pack box with 24 rac packs each with 51 cards. There is a price sticker on 22 of the 24 packs. The box is loose on the bottom right side. This is Cal Ripken Jr rookie year. Jack Morris is on the top of 2 packs, Chili Davis top of one, Nolan Ryan bottom of one, Bill Madlock bottom of one, George Brett bottom of one, Willie Stargell In Action top of one, Mike Schmidt In Action top of one, Joe Morgan top of one, Dave Winfield bottom of one, Steve Sax bottom of one and Pete Rose Highlites bottom of one. Check photos. The box has not been searched or tampered with. US Priority shipping is $13.50. Paypal only. Shipping to the USA only. If you win the item, do not pay for it until you receive an invoice. Payment must be received within 3 days from the end of the auction. Check my other auctions. Thank you"

My interpretation of unsearched means the packs are left in the box and not looked at to see what cards are visible either through the cellophane or wax wrapper and untampered means the packs have not been compromised/opened/resealed. It appears my definition for not seached does not jive with this sellers definition. To me he has searched the box and has listed every star/semi-star card. My question is this; is my interpretation of "not searched" correct or does it mean something different to the rest of my fellow unopened collectors?

Dboneesq

Doug ... when some people state "unsearched", I believe they mean they have not "thumbed thru" each individual rack to see what cards are contained in each pack. Your definition is probably the TRUE definition. However, I think many people out there consider the "packs" to be unsearched as long as they do not do what I described above. That being said, I find his description inaccurate, as he states the "BOX" has not been searched.

mygotta

Generally this is fine as long as the box is not tampered with. That is to say, packs swapped out for other packs if for instance a Ripken was showing or a even a Ryan. But I agree with the OP in someway that the element of surprise is gone and further, you feel the box price might be influenced by any star power showing.

I certainly look through the rack boxes I get to see what stars are showing, but there is a high probability I am not reselling these, and further, I keep them all together in the box they came from.

grote15

I would say Doug (dbone) is correct in that "unserached" in this case has come to mean the racks have not been thumbed through or swapped out to replace star racks with common racks. As boxes were not factory sealed, there really is no way to know for certain if a box is truly "unsearched" in the sense that Doug C. understands it, unless you buy a sealed case.

DCanfield

<< <i>I would say Doug (dbone) is correct in that "unserached" in this case has come to mean the racks have not been thumbed through or swapped out to replace star racks with common racks. As boxes were not factory sealed, there really is no way to know for certain if a box is truly "unsearched" in the sense that Doug C. understands it, unless you buy a sealed case. >>



This gets directly to my point. Do we define an unsearched rack box to mean something different than an unsearched cello or wax box? With cellos and wax, you can't thumb through the cards but you can often see the top or bottom card through the wrapper (obvious with cello but still possible sometimes with wax/mylar). If I state I have an unsearched cello box is that item held to a higher standard than a rack box?
Now I'm not so naive to believe that the majority of boxes passed around for 25+ years haven't had some owner look through them at some point. I just believe that the term unsearched should only apply to boxes that were removed from a sealed case and immediately sealed with shrink wrap, a tamper-proof sticker, hologram, or some other means to show the box hasn't been opened or a case that was opened directly before your eyes. Even then, you are relying on the honesty of the person who opened the case and sealed the box. After all, don't we have a higher regard for (and place a premium on) items that came from a "sealed case"?
Do I think that looking at the front and back of packs diminishes the value of a box? Not at all. IMO a box may have been searched but it is untampered if it is exactly how it left the factory. Oh well, I'll find something else to pontificate about some other day.

grote15

<< <i>

<< <i>I would say Doug (dbone) is correct in that "unserached" in this case has come to mean the racks have not been thumbed through or swapped out to replace star racks with common racks. As boxes were not factory sealed, there really is no way to know for certain if a box is truly "unsearched" in the sense that Doug C. understands it, unless you buy a sealed case. >>



This gets directly to my point. Do we define an unsearched rack box to mean something different than an unsearched cello or wax box? With cellos and wax, you can't thumb through the cards but you can often see the top or bottom card through the wrapper (obvious with cello but still possible sometimes with wax/mylar). If I state I have an unsearched cello box is that item held to a higher standard than a rack box?
Now I'm not so naive to believe that the majority of boxes passed around for 25+ years haven't had some owner look through them at some point. I just believe that the term unsearched should only apply to boxes that were removed from a sealed case and immediately sealed with shrink wrap, a tamper-proof sticker, hologram, or some other means to show the box hasn't been opened or a case that was opened directly before your eyes. Even then, you are relying on the honesty of the person who opened the case and sealed the box. After all, don't we have a higher regard for (and place a premium on) items that came from a "sealed case"?
Do I think that looking at the front and back of packs diminishes the value of a box? Not at all. IMO a box may have been searched but it is untampered if it is exactly how it left the factory. Oh well, I'll find something else to pontificate about some other day. >>



In this case, I'd say it's not much different with cellos as you can easily see the top and bottom cards on each pack, though it is tougher to discern with wax in some cases unless the cards are face out on back.

To add a wrinkle here, sellers will often do the opposite of swapping out star racks for common racks (or cellos)--in this case, adding star packs to the box in order to enhance the value of said box.

flatfoot816

to me unsearched is unsearched--out of the case and into my hands. Very tough to do of course

Most if not all of any other unopened--wax, cello, rack--whatever--will have been looked at by the time it gets in my hands nowadays just like the OP said. Unsearched as the OP defines it--as do I-- is how collectors of unopened look at it--not how casual fans of unopened see it.

To the casual collector, unseached as described gives them security in their purchase. And I see no difference in this type of "searching" wax, cello, or racks.

grote15

to me unsearched is unsearched--out of the case and into my hands. Very tough to do of course


I would agree with that interpretation. Unfortunately, the likelihood that you can even acquire an sealed case of say, 1974 baseball cello packs, or even 1976 baseball rack packs, is virtually nil in this market. Couple that with an owner who decides to forgo the significant premium such a sealed case would command over the sum of its parts (I'd say at least a third over the value of each box sold separately), and I'd estimate that likelihood is even more remote, if a number below virtually nil exists, lol...you might have a better chance at winning Powerball..

That said, opportunities to acquire 1980s cases (and even the occasional very late 1970s case) are still out there, and would be a good investment, not only because unopened product continues to rise in value, but also because, for a serious collector, you know the packs within are 100% unsearched by any definition of the term.