1893-S Silver dollar fake ?

Gerard

Would anyone be able to tell from these pics wether this is a fake 1893-S (maybe really a 1898-S).
I am buying this coin from a private individual who only supplied me with these pics.

AUandAG

It appears authentic to my eyes. But, it will be very easy to tell in hand by inspecting, with a loupe, the
RT in Liberty. The T should have a die scratch in the upper cross bar and the R should have "rabbit ear"
in the lower portion (at the feet off the R). See Vamworld for excellent pics:

1893-s

bob

DennisH

There are only two VAMs for this date and we can rule out VAM 2 due to the placement of the S (this one is located too high under the bow and it isn't tipped to the right). That leaves only VAM 1. Unfortunately, the key diagnostics are scratches in the R and T of Liberty and next to the top cotton leaf... none of which can be seen in photos this small. Here's a link to VAMworld and photos of what I'm talking about:
http://www.vamworld.com/1893-S+VAMs

nags

The 3 looks suspect to me, but it could be flat from the wear. I'd be suspicious.

HighRelief

The 9 and 3 look like they have been altered or added after looking at the Vamworld picture. As Dennis noted, the photos are to small to see the key diagnostics in the R and T of Liberty.

Here is the real thing and as you can see the date detail is much different than yours.

DennisH

Brian's coin, by the way, is a VAM 2.

guitarwes

The MM looks different also compared to High Relief's coin. Need to have a look at the MM location on the VAM1.

LindeDad

<< <i>The MM looks different also compared to High Relief's coin. Need to have a look at the MM location on the VAM1. >>



It should be if the OP coin is the VAM 1 as mentioned above.

BTW I would be very leary of buying without a lot better images and full slab images to compare as this issue is counterfeited as coin and slab items by that outfir in China.

guitarwes

Pic of VAM1 MM on VAMWORLD

lkeigwin

The position of the numeral 1 and the denticles below it is correct for the '93-S.
Lance.

rec78

Looks good from here. The 3 looks kinda funny but I think it may be just the pix. This is another one that needs in-hand examination before genuineness is determined. The coin has the the right look to it-I doubt that it is a fake. However a possible altered date requires closer scrutiny.

Bob

morgansforever

Appears to be in a PCGS slab. Is it? The 1 of the date appears to be squarely over a dentil. What Dennis said. Only one obverse die was used and if these characteristics aren't present it's fake. Plus these diagnostics are in protected areas and identifiable in low grades.

Tookybandit

The 3 looks funny!

BustHalfBrian

Altered date...

The bottom loupe of the 3 is too thick and too blunt at the end

Gerard

Thankyou for all of your feedback.

The coin was listed on ebay as a BUY NOW for $2400 this morning. I bought it and figured before I paid I would
do more research for which I thankyou. I just received an email to my questions which were was it in a
pcgs holder and they said no. I also asked them to take a picture with the date written on a background piece of paper.


For those interested here is the response I received.

my apolagies for just now getting back to u ,ok and to ur request yes that coin in the listing is the one u get its not in a pcgs case its justin one for safe keeping.
but will be shiped in a clear round case,it hasnt been graded.,ill be able to send the required pics as soon as my husband gets home from work as he has the camera ,
if u dont feel confident enough with us to send the payment then let me know so i can get it relisted, im not here to rip any one off for a couple lousy thousand,
my husband is from a california indian tribe called pechanga, we get over 29 thousand every month. so its up to u if u want the coin or not

I will probably go thru with the transaction since I am buying via ebay and I do have buyer protection so
the most I will be out will be postage and my money for a couple of weeks.

amwldcoin

<< <i>Thankyou for all of your feedback.

The coin was listed on ebay as a BUY NOW for $2400 this morning. I bought it and figured before I paid I would
do more research for which I thankyou. I just received an email to my questions which were was it in a
pcgs holder and they said no. I also asked them to take a picture with the date written on a background piece of paper.


For those interested here is the response I received.

my apolagies for just now getting back to u ,ok and to ur request yes that coin in the listing is the one u get its not in a pcgs case its justin one for safe keeping.
but will be shiped in a clear round case,it hasnt been graded.,ill be able to send the required pics as soon as my husband gets home from work as he has the camera ,
if u dont feel confident enough with us to send the payment then let me know so i can get it relisted, im not here to rip any one off for a couple lousy thousand,
my husband is from a california indian tribe called pechanga, we get over 29 thousand every month. so its up to u if u want the coin or not

I will probably go thru with the transaction since I am buying via ebay and I do have buyer protection so
the most I will be out will be postage and my money for a couple of weeks. >>



DUDE! That coin is as fake as a $3 bill! Look at the 3 in the date!!!!!!! Save yourself some money and perhaps a hassle!

coindeuce

I'm confident that it is genuine. Even considering possibility of altered 3 or mintmark is a stretch. All other known Morgan VAMs dated 189_, (including '93-P, '93-O, '93-CC, '98-P, '98-S, '98-O) have different date placement, except '93-P VAM 4
(obv. III2_4) which has doubled obverse stars instantly recognizable even on low grade examples.