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Billet7
Posts: 4,923 ✭✭✭
Billet7
Posts: 4,923 ✭✭✭
Comments
Crazy things -- and bargains -- do sometimes happen in auctions.
<< <i>This was a surprise to me. I wonder why the significant price drop for a VERY rare coin. I don't particularly care for the look, but I would think it's worth more than it's second realized price.
Auction 1
Auction 2 >>
First sale location............ Beverly Hills (pre-LB? )
Second sale location........ Dallas (no show support)
Lesson? Don't consign to an HA Sale in Dallas.............the genteel, cozy days of Steve Ivy Auctions at the grand Dallas Adolphus are over 30 years gone, and Ivy (soon to be Heritage) was already taking the "Show" on the road to major show venues to get a bigger bang for the buck.........Le repos est histoire.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<< <i>Ouch.
Crazy things -- and bargains -- do sometimes happen in auctions. >>
yeah, they do
<< <i>
<< <i>This was a surprise to me. I wonder why the significant price drop for a VERY rare coin. I don't particularly care for the look, but I would think it's worth more than it's second realized price.
Auction 1
Auction 2 >>
First sale location............ Beverly Hills (pre-LB? )
Second sale location........ Dallas (no show support)
Lesson? Don't consign to an HA Sale in Dallas.............the genteel, cozy days of Steve Ivy Auctions at the grand Dallas Adolphus are over 30 years gone, and Ivy (soon to be Heritage) was already taking the "Show" on the road to major show venues to get a bigger bang for the buck.........Le repos est histoire. >>
This auction was held in conjunction with the ANA National Money show, so your reasoning for the low price is not correct.
-Paul
<< <i>Seems like the second sale actually reflects the price guides. >>
I don't think so, I would expect somewhere near the $2500 mark. I believe the one price is high, while the second is low. Just my observations. It is a very rare coin, but doesn't get nearly as much attention as it probably should. Way to many rare coins in the seated quarter series compared to their demand makes for some significantly rare coins at bargain prices.
<< <i>This was a surprise to me. I wonder why the significant price drop for a VERY rare coin. I don't particularly care for the look, but I would think it's worth more than it's second realized price.
Auction 1
Auction 2 >>
Personally, I think the first price of $3,000+ was way too high for this coin. The second price of $1500 seems more realistic. I had an MS62/63 of this date back in 2005 and sold it to Heritage for $1500. It was in an ANACS AU55 holder but was clearly MS63 on strike, luster, and rub. The graders got it wrong by assuming the obv flat leg was wear. The coin was so pristine it had full luster on the flat rims as well. Anyways, Heritage knew what the coin was and bought it knowing that I was unable to get it crossed at NGC (came back AT). Coin was a nice gun metal grey color. Surprised me though. I still got MS62 money for it. So an XF coin today at $1500 seems like plenty of money for this date. Same comment for the 1869. I view these 2 dates as totally different than anything else in the seated quarters, and here's why.
I'd place the business strike/mint state 1866/1869 in the top 20 of all collectible seated quarter dates by rarity (proofs excluded). There's good company there. They're generally on par with 1842 LD, 1851, 1853 NA, 1866, 1866-s, and 1867-s. The pre-1858 P mints and mint marked dates don't have competing proofs to deal with. And that seems to make a difference in what the 1866 and 1869 are worth. The 1869 is very scarce in Fine-XF condition, and rarely seen in very low grades. It is much easier to find in unc and certainly in Proof. In that respect a VF-XF is an underrated grade that is not often available. In looking through the Heritage archives the past 6 years there are a couple VF/XF's available in the $900-$2000 range. The 69 is certainly a lot tougher than the 69-s but again, no proofs for the 69-s, and not very many uncs. It may be that the rare circ 1866 and 1869 quarters never get their just rewards. Maybe only 1/3 of the surviving pops of 150-250 coins are nice circs. I like these dates and feel they're underrated. They've come down in price the last few years after peaking in 2008 as the seated mania ended its first bubble ever....first time better date seated quarters have come down in price since I've been collecting them in the mid-1970's. A lot of seated quarters are still worth all the money they brought in 2008. But, a lot of them aren't. Seated quarter collectors aren't probably flush with cash as they were in 2006-2008. And we know that the same customers buying monster coins from Legend aren't buying XF 1866 seated quarters.
I feel the 66 and 69 will always be battling against their unc and proof buddies. It's why I decided back in the 1970's to concentrate on either the early P mints or the mint marked coins to avoid this ambiguity. Maybe someday a VF-XF 1866 25c will completely divorce itself from the price ceiling that the uncs and proofs tend to impose and sell for what it it really is (rare circ specimen), rather than what it isn't (ie a non-proof, non-unc). When this coin brought $3,000 back in 2011 that's probably more than MS62-63 coins would sell for....it came close to divorcing itself from unc coin pricing. I've never been able to understand why an XF specimen should be worth more than an unc....even if one considers the desire for set matching. The very scarce 1866-s quarter may be on par with the business strikes of 1866 and 1869. But it is far cleaner to evaluate w/o competing proofs. It also has far less uncs than the 66/69. I can see paying $3,000 for an XF 1866-s....but not the other two. Maybe two bidders just had to have that XF45 1866 back in Nov 2011. Today, there's only one (or none) of them bidding.
I could see an XF bringing $3000.00 but not that one.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>I think the second price is more in line for that coin.
I could see an XF bringing $3000.00 but not that one. >>
The world's finest, eye-appealing and lustrous XF45 in a stickered PCGS holder might just be worth that $3,000.
Over the past 1-2 years NGC coins have lost further ground to PCGS, esp. if not stickered.
This particular coin is not original by any stretch. It has some marks, scuffs, hairlines, and chatter. Worst thing is a light scratch right across Liberty's lap.
The reverse has a streak of staining on the lower half. Certainly not a choice XF45 coin. Under the expanded Heritage photos it doesn't look very wholesome.
$1500 is fair money for the coin. Originality is becoming more and more important on better date circ seated quarters. And there aren't many of them out there.
Nowadays, with more and more internet buyers, the venue (at a show or in the Dallas office) is getting less important.
<< <i> . . . . So an XF coin today at $1500 seems like plenty of money for this date. . . . . >>
I agree with just about everything Roadrunner said, except the above comment. Business strike 1866 quarters regularly sell in the $1,500 range for Fine coins, VF's are around $1,850 and EF's are around $2,200.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
THe biggest reason for the price adjustment was the a PCGS/CAC AU50 example sold in July of the year (just a few months before this coin's second appearance) and realized only $2530
Auction 3 Link
Based on the results of the CAC-AU50, I'd say this XF45 did as well as one would expect, regardless of the other factors.
Now, with that said, I believe that all 5 Seated series (half dimes, dimes, quarters, half dollars and silver dollars) have scores of extremely underrated dates like this 1866. This date has a mintage of 16,800 coins and single digit pops across the board. If this coin were struck in the 20th century, it would be worth $25,000 or more. Think of how much more common a 1916 quarter is than this coin...
<< <i>
<< <i> . . . . So an XF coin today at $1500 seems like plenty of money for this date. . . . . >>
I agree with just about everything Roadrunner said, except the above comment. Business strike 1866 quarters regularly sell in the $1,500 range for Fine coins, VF's are around $1,850 and EF's are around $2,200. >>
Here's a decent looking PCGS VF25 that just sold for $1500.
Maybe I'm looking more towards wholesale price levels using Heritage.
The low mintage Philly dates of the 1863-1869 in the half dimes to quarters have always had the issue of dealing with the relative abundance of proofs (and even uncs).
Fortunately, the 1851 and 1853 na quarters, just citing two examples, don't have to worry about that.
I would really like to find a g-vg eventually.