At what point is "Re-seller" considered a dealer?

bigjpst

I am sure that this has been discussed before, but I use Chrome and the Search function doesn't work. A couple of recent threads got me to wonder, at what point does the dealer community consider re-sellers to be actual dealers? I hear others call people wannabe, part time, (insert derogatory name here). What do you consider the prerequisite? I know that when one makes themselves out to be a seller, and gets burned(like in another recent thread) many will claim "Dealer should have known better", but when one is selling and calls themselves a dealer, others may call them wannabe, or say they like to play dealer on the internet. I myself am in the camp that if a person is actively buying coins to resell, they are a dealer of coins. Whether they are a good/honest/knowledgeable is another story all together. Just curious.

LanceNewmanOCC

<< <i>I am sure that this has been discussed before, but I use Chrome and the Search function doesn't work.. >>


try IE
.

CoinJunkie

Yeah, I would generally agree with your statement:

"I myself am in the camp that if a person is actively buying coins to resell, they are a dealer of coins."

It's really just a matter of orientation. When I go to a coin show, I pretty much never evaluate
coins as to whether I could flip them for profit. I am too busy looking for coins to add to my
own collection. Therefore, even though I end up selling a fair number of coins for various
reasons, I do not consider myself a dealer.

LindeDad

If you have to sell to eat then your a dealer.
All the rest of us are what they cuss when they aren't eating steaks.

ctf_error_coins

I have made the transition from newbie to general collector to specialist to selling coins to buy nicer coins for my collection to getting a CA Resale License to buying coins for resale, setting a professional coins website with 200 major errors to setting up at local coin shows.

I have not traveled to major shows yet. As a specialist, I would NEVER consider a B&M store.

I could care less what other label me, but somewhere along the line I think I became a coin dealer ......

ebaybuyer

label not lest ye be labeled. what constitutes a coin dealer ? what is the definition ? somene who buys and sells coins ? banks do, does that make a bank a coin dealer ? credit unions buy coins, does that mean the teller at my credit union is a dealer ? why is it necessary to label someone a collector, a dealer, a variety specialist, etc, why the nametags ? if someone wants to be a dealer, or pretends to be a dealer, whos business is it ? is it that person's business or everyone elses ? if a person buys and sells coins for a living, with no other form of income, he may be considered a dealer or a should he/she be considered a person who buys and sells coins for a living ? now if someone pretends to be a dealer when it is convenient, but then puts on his collector hat when he finds himself in trouble with something, maybe that person has too many hats and not enough integrity, and no matter what anyone else labels him, he will always have the victim hat under whatever other hat hes already wearing

daOnlyBG

"DEALER
1. individual or firm acting as a PRINCIPAL in a securities transaction. Principals trade for their own account and risk. When buying from a broker acting as a dealer, a customer receives securities from the firm's inventory; the confirmation must disclose this. When specialists trade for their own account, as they must as part of their responsibility for maintaining an orderly market, they act as dealers. Since most brokerage firms operate both as brokers and principals, the term broker-dealer is commonly used.
2. one who purchases goods or services for resale to consumers. The element of inventory risk is what distinguishes a dealer from an agent or sales representative (99)."

Taken from Barron's Dictionary of Finance and Investment Terms, 3rd ed.

To put into layman's terms, I think a dealer is one who buys coins at wholesale prices; these wholesale prices are justified by the need to offset risks due to building up a large inventory.

Cougar1978

A person is a dealer if he is actively engaged in the business of buying and selling coins / currency. He takes tables at shows, may have an online store, or even a shop. His goals revolve around his business. For tax purposes he files a schedule C and may even have an assumed name for the business with a business bank account. He maintains business cards to give out at shows and maintains a market presence.

His goal is to move his inventory as quickly as possible with a positive ROI. He may have a personal collection. I knew of one deaker who was putting together a nice MS set of Standing Liberty Quarters. At shows he would search for upgrades or dates he did not have. It gives one a purpose to make the show fun, not just business - I assembled a complete Texas Commem Half set in this manner. Pick something affordable that does not take away from the business.

On the other hand, I have had coins that would make a nice addition to a collection but if I moved them quickly - at the same show, within 30 days I considered that a win win. While some dealers have a "personal collection or portfolio" as a dealer I am not usually a collector, keeping coins for the long term. I may have certain position goals - x ounces of gold, silver, or x number of Walkers, Commems, Gold, Dollars, and type. I definitely want to have enough material to fill my cases at shows but buying cash for deals is another needed element.

bigjpst

<< <i>If you have to sell to eat then your a dealer.
All the rest of us are what they cuss when they aren't eating steaks. >>

mrpotatoheadd

I think a better distinction than the one between a collector and a dealer would be between "Someone Who Should Be Expected To Know Better" and "Someone Who Shouldn't". There are plenty of posters here who have no trouble jumping all over a dealer for lack of knowledge in some particular area and how they know so much more but when a dispute arises, say "Gee... I'm just a lil' ol' collector and he's the professional so he should be expected to be held to a higher standard than me."

But then, that's just me. YMMV.

BustHalfBrian

When you make a living from it

bigjpst

<< <i>I think a better distinction than the one between a collector and a dealer would be between "Someone Who Should Be Expected To Know Better" and "Someone Who Shouldn't". There are plenty of posters here who have no trouble jumping all over a dealer for lack of knowledge in some particular area and how they know so much more but when a dispute arises, say "Gee... I'm just a lil' ol' collector and he's the professional so he should be expected to be held to a higher standard than me."

But then, that's just me. YMMV. >>


I like this one.

bigjpst

<< <i>When you make a living from it >>


I think that this is a bit narrow. Many sellers, especially at the smaller shows are either retired or selling only on a part time basis while starting out.

Tookybandit

Lately, I have been calling myself a novice dealer. I own a retail business that is unrelated to numismatics and I have advertised for a couple of years that I buy coins. I leave the jewelry, silverware, and whatever else to other folks and only buy coins and currency.

CoinRaritiesOnline

If you sell a duplicate on Ebay, or on the BST, or walk around at a show and sell it to a dealer, you are not a dealer.

If you buy coins specifically to resell them, have a website listing said coins, or take a table at a coin show to sell inventory, you're a dealer.



<< <i>When you make a living from it >>



I don't think this has anything to do with it. Many dealers have day jobs and deal coins on the side. They are still dealers though.

BustHalfBrian

<< <i>

<< <i>When you make a living from it >>


I think that this is a bit narrow. Many sellers, especially at the smaller shows are either retired or selling only on a part time basis while starting out. >>



Maybe you're right...

How about "when you make a significant percent of your annual income from it"?

Constantine

If it is about knowledge, then a collector can know just as much if not more than a dealer. So when it comes to transactions and "knowing better" then if it is an experienced collector, does it really matter?

daOnlyBG

<< <i>If it is about knowledge, then a collector can know just as much if not more than a dealer. So when it comes to transactions and "knowing better" then if it is an experienced collector, does it really matter? >>


Not at all. I don't think knowledge has anything to do with whether you're a dealer or not. It's definitely helpful or proper for a dealer to be very knowledgeable, but if you're not very resourceful, you can still be a dealer.

Billet7

Yeah, I would think it's all about intent. Are you buying to sell or buying to keep (even if you end up selling.)

braddick

If you buy and sell coins, you're a dealer (small 'd').

If you service your customer base and go the extra mile to not only sell coins but sell happiness, you're a Dealer.

It's not just about intent. It's about auction.

TwoSides2aCoin

A YN comes into the shop once in a while, either with a younger cousin, or with his mom. Then he comes back with his older brother and cousin with five dollars in hand, just three days ago. He buys an "Ike" dollar. (for a dollar and a few cents ). His cousin and older brother asked him why he paid more for a dollar than a dollar. He looked at his older brother who is a sophomore in high school, held up this giant coin as if to say, "GEE LQQK", then kind of sarcastically says : "For a profit". His older brother looked at me and said, "He always has to make a profit".

I smiled and said, "He's a smart dealer because that is tough in this environment ". The kid is only 11 or 12. True story that happened in a Brick and Mortar last week. I'm not sure they even knew what "environment" meant in the context.

Of course, some dealers will not leave any meat on the bone. It's not a requirement, you know ?

Kove

I use the term "wannabe dealer" to denote someone who wants dealer privileges (profit potential, buying coins at wholesale pricing, a greater presumption of knowledge or expertise), without recognizing the incumbent responsibilities of a "professional numismatist" (standing behind your product, quick and easy returns even when it means you will lose money, acquiring and possessing more knowledge than most so as not to sell problem coins, accepting your own mistakes as "tuition").

Anybody who buys and sells coins can call themselves a dealer. Ok. The hobby has enough dealers to go around. What the hobby needs more of is "professional numismatists."

bigjpst

<< <i>I use the term "wannabe dealer" to denote someone who wants dealer privileges (profit potential, buying coins at wholesale pricing, a greater presumption of knowledge or expertise), without recognizing the incumbent responsibilities of a "professional numismatist" (standing behind your product, quick and easy returns even when it means you will lose money, acquiring and possessing more knowledge than most so as not to sell problem coins, accepting your own mistakes as "tuition").

Anybody who buys and sells coins can call themselves a dealer. Ok. The hobby has enough dealers to go around. What the hobby needs more of is "professional numismatists." >>



Well said. I know the coin business can be as ruthless and cut throat as any, and don't expect established dealers to automatically accept new members into their midst. I like this explanation and a "Professional Numismatist" is what I would hope to some day be. I know it's a long road ahead. Especially since I started out with virtually no capital and little to no guidance until somewhat recently. Thanks for everyone who responded.

bidask

In the past I have set up at shows to sell coins out of my collection.

Am I a coin dealer?

stealer

<< <i>If you sell a duplicate on Ebay, or on the BST, or walk around at a show and sell it to a dealer, you are not a dealer.

If you buy coins specifically to resell them, have a website listing said coins, or take a table at a coin show to sell inventory, you're a dealer. >>



What if I walk coins at a show, and I buy coins for the purpose of resale? I guess so-called "vest pocket" dealing serves as an intermediary. Occupations are arbitrary, after all.