Gelderland-Duiten (doits) in Mint State-My set so far

Dennis88

The 1752 is as nice as the 1755 but for some reason they called it AU-58...Still the finest I've seen for that date. The 1758 is a RB IMHO but unfortunately NGC didn't agree. I also have a 1761 that's still on the way and a 1794 that I thought would go AU but might send in just to try.

Sorry for the big pictures, but enjoy!

marcmoish

These are all cool minors - great colors too

Zohar

I really like these and the fact that you are very focused and knowledgable regarding Dutch coinage. Thank you for sharing.

worldcoinguy

Awesome pieces and very nice photography.

LochNESS

I agree the photography is great and I especially like the blue-ish toning on the first piece.

JCMhouston

Very nice group of coppers!

Dennis88

Thanks everyone. Pictures by bluccphotos.com

MacCrimmon

OK Dennis, I'm busy and lazy for the moment, but did Gelderland mint these doits prior to 1751? How about other minors from either Utrecht, or Zuid Holland, or Noord-Brabant? Copper, silver?


BTW, nice coppers!

Dennis88

<< <i>OK Dennis, I'm busy and lazy for the moment, but did Gelderland mint these doits prior to 1751? How about other minors from either Utrecht, or Zuid Holland, or Noord-Brabant? Copper, silver?


BTW, nice coppers! >>



Earliest copper piece of this denomination was a no-date issue that was struck at the Gelderland Mint in the 1590's; after that there are irregular issues in odd years throughout the 17th and 18th century. In my experience those from 1703 and up can be found in the higher grades but require much searching; except for the 1759 I'm not aware of larger quantities in UNC (the 1759 is the most commonly encountered in UNC but often is weakly struck).

I still have to encounter any 17th Century Gelderland Duit in a grade above XF. I have the earlier issues (some at least) but they are circulated pieces I don't bother slabbing.

As for the other provinces; they exist, but I don't collect them. Gelderland did strike a limited number of silver and gold presentation pieces but I'm still hunting for quality pieces.

Dennis

spoon

Really great stuff! I've long been attracted to Dutch minors as there are some high grade bits out there, but they can be tough to find (no love for copper at most auctions).

Do you know anything about how so many have been so well preserved? I mean, you rarely see 18th century copper in red outside of a few places where the mint or a few prominent folks kept them for record. I know there was a minor hoard of 1739 red duiten from Holland that Ola Zaunders sold off a while back (pic below of one I snagged). But where the heck are these coming from? Were there novodel-like restrikes in later years? (I only ask because I'm kind of confused by all the off metal strikes you see listed for several minor types)

Dennis88

<< <i>Really great stuff! I've long been attracted to Dutch minors as there are some high grade bits out there, but they can be tough to find (no love for copper at most auctions).

Do you know anything about how so many have been so well preserved? I mean, you rarely see 18th century copper in red outside of a few places where the mint or a few prominent folks kept them for record. I know there was a minor hoard of 1739 red duiten from Holland that Ola Zaunders sold off a while back (pic below of one I snagged). But where the heck are these coming from? Were there novodel-like restrikes in later years? (I only ask because I'm kind of confused by all the off metal strikes you see listed for several minor types)

>>



I'm not quite sure where that hoard came from and those have all been dispersed in the market; I think NGC has slabbed 39 of them which is a huge number.

The gold and silver strikings were never meant to circulate; instead, they were struck as presentation pieces. One (Dutch) tradition of the 18th century was to give silver and gold strikings (or special strikings in general) as new year's gifts. People could actually go to the mint and strike their own coins, off-metal or not. This is why there are so many off-metal strikings known many of which are surprisingly affordable.

I have never seen a full red Gelderland duit; I've been hunting for a nice RB for awhile now of any date. They are tough, these pieces were meant to circulate and they did heavily in both the home country as well as the colonies in the east (present-day Ceylon and Indonesia).

Dennis

SmEagle1795

No need to apologize for big pictures - those are some beautiful coins (which I know nothing about!)

Dennis88

1761 added

TwoKopeiki

What a beautiful set so far!

LochNESS

I never get tired of looking at these. It's really remarkable how their condition has been preserved after all this time. Do they have a pedigree?

terribleredmonster

Regarding the color designations on these pieces, by my reckoning several that were given full brown certainly seem to merit red brown. Can anybody explain to me the requirements of the different gradations of color for coppers and whether or not the big two have something approaching a "scientific" method for determining the color designation of a given piece? Are these designations completely subjective? It seems to me that if they are subjective, based on graders' overall impression of the coin and not on, say, what percentage of the surface of the coin shows red or reddish color, they really don't count for much and probably shouldn't figure into coin values nearly so much as they seem to.

Your thoughts?

LochNESS

I would expect a PCGS grader to say it's all subjective, including the color designations, since a 65 of one type can look so different from a 65 of another type. Ask any collector of [US] colonial coppers I believe they will agree the entire process is subjective.

Dennis88

<< <i>I never get tired of looking at these. It's really remarkable how their condition has been preserved after all this time. Do they have a pedigree? >>



None of them do. The 1759 is a hoard date (although it might have been a small hoard) and is quite frequently encountered in UNC...the other dates are generally difficult to find.