CICF Post Saturday

nicholasz219

Hello All,

I just wanted to see how everyone else's experience was at the CICF who attended today. I brought my girlfriend, her first show, and attended the Chicago Coin Club meeting. The meeting was really informative with a talk by the Director of Classical Coins, Heritage, David Michaels. The talk, titled "Adlocutio: The Emperor & His Army on Roman Coinage, 50BC - 450AD" was very entertaining with Mr. Michaels giving the speech in a full Centurion's armor. He got a little tied up in the details of his armor and explanation of such, but it was not for lack of passion about his subject. He gave quite the explanation of the life of a soldier and colorful descriptions of the Emperors and their styles. The talk should have had an extra half hour or hour to accommodate his ambitious topic. But well done overall and I was happy to make the presentation.

I was able to look through the bargain coins of Ecin Associates and found a nice Hadrian As, with Felicitas on the reverse. I was pretty happy with the price and he had a nice selection of bargain material as well as nice mid level stuff. He spent a lot of time with my girlfriend and I and was happy to pick up a large Hadrian piece.

Next up was Ron Beach. Ron also spent quite a bit of time with us as well while we worked through his bargain bin. Ron spent a lot of time with us as well and had about five boxes of bargain ancients. I picked up an As of Maximianus with Concordia on the reverse for $10. Ron explained a lot of the items in his cases to my girlfriend, which was nice as we went through his trays of bargains.

We visited The Time Machine next. We were able to pick up a nice denarius of Elagabulus, which was a pleasant surprise. I also filled my spaces for a Claudius As (Minerva on reverse), an Augustus As (altar) which was a surprise for a bargain bin find, an As of Trajan (Spes) and an Antoninianus of Severus Alexander for $20 which was a nice rounded lot for under $100. The seller was pretty personable and took a lot of time with us even though the show was drawing to a close for the day and we were not buying premium pieces.

My favorite and most productive seller of the day award goes to Kenn Hollister of Moneta. He had many boxes of foreign mid level stuff and we were able to look at some nice Medieval English pennies (unfortunately mostly Edward I-III, so I didn't buy any as they were duplicates of current pieces in that new collection), Russian Imperial and three solid long boxes of ancients. His ancient bargain bins were 20% off of marked prices and I bought seven pieces to finish out my show.

I purchased:

Augustus, Rome Provincial As, snake on reverse.
Domitian, Rome Provincial As Antioch.
Antoninus Pius, Rome Province Syria As, Seleucis and Pieria.
Probus, Antoninianus, Clementia Temp.
Constans, Siscia Mint, As, Phoenix.
Theodosius I, SMKA Cyzicus, Vot X, Mult XX.
Arcadius, Ae2, Gloria Romanorum.
Honorius, Ae2, Antioch, Gloria Romanorum.

I was pretty happy to make multiple purchases and stay under budget for the day. I would have liked to find some Russian Imperial material that weren't duplicates of my current holdings, but from what I saw, all of the premium Russian stuff was bought and taken off of the floor well before we got there. Since that market remains strong I focused on my Roman Emperor collection which worked out well. I would have liked to have more time to go through some other dealers' boxes, in particular that of Civitas, but I saw Josh and he was busy so circled around again and there he was, busy again. That was unfortunate, but hopefully will get to see him at the ANA in August.

Two things that sort of stuck out for me as this was the first coin show that I have been to in fifteen years plus:

1) Dealers leaving early, on day two of a three day show is just bad form. If the show is advertised as being from 10am-6pm, plan on staying. I have always understood people not staying long on Sundays, with a short schedule and what not, but I mean come on, that's just basic professionalism. Stay where you say you will be until that time passes.

2) While coins may sell themselves, this is still a people business. I do not have to buy from anyone at a show and frankly I can probably get better prices on the Bay or VCoins. But I liked being back at a show, liked sharing it with my girlfriend (who all of the floor seemed to like as well, for that matter), liked seeing some people and getting to know others and generally like sitting across from a dealer and browsing through boxes to find something new and exciting and having real conversation with a real dealer. Clicking buttons on a computer is great but boring. Some dealers didn't seem very interested in engaging with me and that is a shame because when I was a kid I just assumed it was because I was a kid and I didn't have any money to interest them. Now I am a grown up with a few hundred dollars to spend and I do not even need really that much attention. Just ask me what they can help me with, offer me boxes and things in my range/interest and let me go for awhile and check on me occasionally. Make a little conversation. Be the seller, make me want to purchase from you. My girlfriend liked all of the sellers I listed above because they were nice, personable and non threatening to a lady who has never been to a coin show before and knows a small amount about coins from her Dad. Those were the places that I spent my money.

Nothing I bought was high end, but if I spend $100 a week on one coin or five and do that all year long, I think I wouldn't be the worst customer to have pestering you for stuff to buy. Hopefully I can work out some decent pictures of my newps. I'm really excited and I know my daughter will be too when she gets to see the new additions.

marcmoish

beautiful post!

frankly I have an issue with folks leaving on a sunday too - let alone saturday.

Excuses excuses dont do it for me - an advertised 3 day show to 6pm or whatever - means exactly that!

Zohar

Thats unfortunate. I would assume that with all the hassle of setting up and schlepping the coins a dealer would want to maximize potential. You never know who swings by your table on Sunday. Generally speaking, while some quality dealers spend the time to build a relationship and educate, it seems that there is less interest by some dealers to "invest" in the client but rather focus on the selling part given the competitive nature of the business with the advent of online shops and auctions. My main concern is the younger collector generation who may get lost in the shuffle without honest guidance.

As an example, the local Stacks store doesnt really hold inventory or cater to buyers it seems. I stopped by multiple time, and did not get that vibe. I see it as more of a place which they use to buy coins from people. This is contrary to what I read in their newsletters about the history of the firm and how the store served as a meeting place for collectors helping establish the brand and collector base.

MrEureka

frankly I have an issue with folks leaving on a sunday too - let alone saturday.

Excuses excuses dont do it for me - an advertised 3 day show to 6pm or whatever - means exactly that!


I had a table at the CICF, and I was one of the last dealers to leave the show on Sunday afternoon.

At other shows I might leave early, for any number of reasons.

Like it or not, at least understand that when I leave early, it's usually because I need to - again, for any number of reasons - and I might not have taken a table at all if I was required to stay to the end.

And in the cases where I have to leave early, I'd like to think that the show is better off having me for 3 of 4 days, rather than not having me at all.

nicholasz219

Andy, I guess it was frustrating that as I looked to make my way back to dealers that had material I was interested in on Saturday afternoon, I saw many empty tables. This was at about 4pm. It also seemed that the trend accelerated as the time drew closer to five until I would say half of the room was gone. I lucked out by working with Kenn Hollister last and he was there to the bitter end with me, and gave me a nice deal on some ancients.

I can understand where you are coming from in terms of having other commitments, and I would hazard an opinion that yes, having a dealer for three of four days is better than no dealer at all. But when it boils down to it, it's really easy for me to stay home and buy coins off of the Bay, typically for far under what dealers sell at a store or in person. I do like coin shows and would like to attend CSNS this weekend too and try my luck there as well. But if I am only able to get there for the end of the show or at the end of a day of the show, I don't really care why dealers are not there, they are just not there. And I can just go right back home to Ebay and VCoins and spend my money there.

Please do not take this a personal criticism of you. I was making a general statement about the room clearing out, not commenting on your whereabouts. I guess I was let down because I had arrived at about noon, went to the Chicago Coin Club meeting at 1-2pm, then started working through the room. By the time I had a feel for what I wanted and had a chance to compare a few coins, there were definitely coins that I did not get and money that I did not spend simply because by the time I made my way back to the dealer who had a coin I wanted after comparing it to other examples on the floor, they were gone.

Dennis88

You have to realize that for many dealers there is a serious cost/benefit consideration to be made when it comes to these shows. The last day of the show, whether it's a Saturday or Sunday or any other day of the week is generally the slowest day of the show. The serious collectors will try to come earlier in the show because much of the material is still fresh at that point and choices are the largest. I understand that there are very serious collectors of any kind of material that will not be able to come in until the last day of the show; but generally speaking my experience is that these collectors will come as early as possible. This means that generally speaking the last day of the show is one where novice collectors or collectors buying a coin here and there will come in to the show, not to speak of many so-called "tire-kickers" who just want to see "some old coins". If you take into consideration that on average a dealer will have several hundred dollars or more in expenses for that last day (hotel, food, more expensive flights etc etc) it can be very hard to even meet that overhead cost on a last day. For many dealers it is just not worth it. Why would you want to stay an extra day, lose money on that day, and lose a day of potentially valuable work at an office or even more valuable time with family?

It just doesn't make sense for a lot of dealers, especially those that need to live from coin sales and need to minimize days where they lose money. Of course it bugs many collectors, but it's just the way it is, and I don't see it changing anytime soon.

Dennis

nicholasz219

Dennis, I completely understand and appreciate your point of view. I would like to see show organizers work to give dealers a better set of incentives to stay the last day of the show such as working out deals with the host hotel to give a break on sunday night stays, a discount for dealers who commit to manning their tables the last day of the show, et cetera.

I am speaking solely from the collector perspective but I do have a few dealers that I consider friends and understand that while their passion may be coins, their bills demand real dollars.

marcmoish

Andy I don't believe this message the poster posted was meant at you.

Sounds like you took it personal - same for my remark

I believe you usually stay, and regardless just the fact that you share your knowledge on these boards says a lot about your collector client-friendly character altogether.

Its a general statement/issue and both have valid points I admit.

nicholasz219

Andy, Marc definitely hit the nail on the head. I had no issue with you at all. I would speak to someone privately if I had issue with them to give them a chance to explain or make things right. Notice how compliments were given out by name but concerns addressed unnamed folks. .

CIVITAS

Sorry we missed you, Nicholas. It was a pretty busy show for us.

In fact, we were examples of the other extreme. We were there two hours past the close of the show and were almost the last ones out. Only one other dealer was still there when we left. Even security had left.