Attention Goetz collectors

satootoko

Coins Weekly reports that Heritage Auctions will offer 1,200+ original dies and hubs from engraver Karl Goetz in a three-part auction this month in Chicago.

Cocoinut

I have just one of Goetz's patterns. If the dies are in their original condition, what is the likelihood that restrikes will be made?



Jim



Edited because I'm such a poor typist.

DorkGirl

I guess restrikes could be a possibility.

TwoKopeiki

Wow, I'm guessing Cacheman is busy taking out a second mortgage and arranging for a buyer for one of his kidneys

spoon

I remember him mentioning that one of Goetz' descendants (grandson?) was having health issues and was considering selling significant chunks of the family collection. I'm guessing this is that.

Hoping that this doesn't wind up like the time in the 80s when the family sold off too a large chunk at once and got screwed. That does seem like an awfully large specialty collection for a single (3-part) auction!

pruebas

I'm trying to understand the manufacturing process of these medals.

Most Goetz medals are cast, not struck. The dies would appear to be for striking the master medal (Gussmodel) used to make each mold. The molds were probably a one-shot deal meaning only one medal could be made from each one and the mold was destroyed in the process. But that master medal should last a long time, probably several hundred uses at least.

Maybe this process is all explained in Kienast, which is one book I have not yet managed to obtain.

LochNESS

I think I've got some of his medals in my "list for sale" queue. Maybe I can get a good price around auction time, with the added hype? I've never had much luck selling medals.

cacheman

The family has nothing to do with this sale even though Heritage claims that they do. Germans want material returned for museums.

An ongoing discussion can be found here: secessionistmedals.com

Anyone wishing to pipe in on the topic feel free to join.

Any European medal collectors are also encouraged to join. No numismatics here with the exception of pattern coins, all else is strictly exonumia for exonumia's sake. It's slow right now as it's only been 'live' since saturday.

Scott

pruebas

<< <i>Germans want material returned for museums. >>

So what? It's a public sale and they can bid just like everyone else.

Judging by the prices for the more important stuff, they are. Personally, I think it's good that this material is out in collector hands instead of some stuffy old basement or attic collecting dust/rust. And I feel the same way about the Huntington Collection, that continues to be disbursed.

Round 1 of this sale of Goetz hubs & dies is now history. I won one set of dies in this sale--for Goetz's 1912 wedding--Kienast 63. I feel these are important and under-appreciated. Additionally, they are full size and mostly uncorroded. There were no hubs offered for this medal.

pruebas

Heritage did two sales of these Goetz dies/hubs and it looks like the third (and final?) set will come to public auction in Germany as a group.



Link



Here is the inventory of the lot (PDF).

cacheman

Actually, Heritage III ended up going to Goldberg and sold in their Pre-Long Beach Auction of January 2015.

I have all the records and images but haven't had time to compare Teutoburger lots to the three previous auctions. A quick look over makes me think this might be a conglomeration of purchases from the three sales mixed with others from a different source.

It's interesting that there have been few WWII and Reich period dies and hubs offered.

With just a couple of exceptions, rust pitting and other impairments will keep all the dies and hubs from producing anything resembling an authentic Goetz period strike... which is good. The Guido Goetz pieces in these four sales speak for themselves.

Stork

Originally posted by: cacheman

...



With just a couple of exceptions, rust pitting and other impairments will keep all the dies and hubs from producing anything resembling an authentic Goetz period strike... which is good....

That is good. Is there a list of those that might make a decent strike though? Just curious, but I do dislike the idea of new strikes from old dies like that.

cacheman

Hi Stork, A list is on my list.