70toppsfanatic/miconlegacy or anyone have any Chicago Sun Times reports?
tmgrnzx9r
Posts: 546 ✭✭✭
Does anyone have any good reports to share from this weekends show like last year??
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So I guess that means I'll see you all and give show reports next at national.
Dave
<< <i>I was planning on bring there but one of my kids had some medical issues that needed to be given higher priority.
So I guess that means I'll see you all and give show reports next at national. >>
Sorry to hear about your kid. I hope all is well. I will hold you to the national report!!!
I went Friday night and Sunday afternoon. Maybe Saturday was good, but attendance seemed way down compared to Sun Times shows of the past. Most all the cards I had interest in on Friday, were still at the dealers tables on Sunday... and I still didn't buy.
Easily, 90% of the dealers I talked to regarding their asking prices on cards were just stupid high. I very much prefer to buy cards in person, knowing exactly what I'll get, versus reviewing a scan on eBay... but dang, dealers this weekend must have thought that with their table fees... came an invisible gold infusion in their cards that made them more valuable then every other identical copy in existence.
I stand around watching dealers quote current ebay selling prices... and stoping to look up past eBay sales on their phones, ipads, etc... when looking to offer folks 30-40% for their cards. But god forbid you mention eBay when you question their asking prices on the cards in their displays. One particular card I was hoping to pick up... normally sells for $225-$240 on eBay. Located at three dealers tables Friday... asking prices were $325, $300 & $375. All three dealers seemed offended when I bring up the logical arguement that if they sold on eBay, they might see $200 after eBay fees, Paypal fees & shipping. The $325 & $375 wouldn't budge on their prices. The $300 was mildly receptive to my $220 offer... well, receptive in a sense that he countered with $280. I said I'd go up to $240, which is what I can buy the card for easily on eBay... he wasn't interested. Like I said above, these were all conversations on this particular card Friday evening (I wanted to pick one up thinking there was no way they'd last, if priced reasonably, past Friday night)... all three dealers still had these cards at their tables when I left the show Sunday afternoon.
That seemed to be the standard stance with each dealer I talked to about their cards. On eBay, seller take home is roughly 15% under market value sales prices... most dealers were asking 20-50% above current eBay prices. Yet, all wonder why shows are dying... and eBay keeps churning along?!?!?!
Oh yeah, has it been discussed before (yes, it has)... the autograph lineup was decent, but on average, this was probably the highest price per autograph lineup I've ever seen at one of the Chicago shows. The few times I walked that end of the show, lines looked pretty weak.
I always pick up a few 56's to be graded from Uncle Dick's table when in Chicago, as I like getting decent mid-grade 56's for $6.00 or less... I bought 6.
As for the rest of the show, and for the other 99% of my collecting focus... all weekend... I bought 1 card.
Thanks for the report. That sucks that you were not able to pick up that card you wanted. It makes me wonder why dealers won't budge on cards, unless they bought them for a higher amount and would rather sit in them forever instead of moving them. They need to be more in line with online pricing, or there will be no more shows as you suggested. I remember the good old days of the late 90's when it was vise versa. I used to buy cards at shows (especially McGwire when he broke the record) and then flipping them on eBay for a good profit. Man I miss them early eBay years!!
~WalterSobchak
I did get some very nice nm-mint 1960s including a Koufax ($90) that I will send in to PSA. If the Koufax gets an 8, I've paid for my trip. Also picked up some great 1956s and 1959s, as well as a couple Diamond Stars from 1934 just because they were in great condition at a reasonable price. I had to leave a sweet 1966 Mantle in a dealer's case. It was in my opinion nm/nm-mint with great centering. The dealer offered it to me for $235 cash only and I had spent nearly all my money. He wouldn't take a check or cc and I had only a few minutes before I was too leave. So I skipped the ATM and headed home, wondering all the way back if I shouldn have made the deal happen.
For the most part, I always enjoy viewing some of the beautiful vintage cards graded in mint condition at dealers' tables and there were plenty to see. To offset some of my earlier comments about dealing with sellers, let me add this. Friday night I bought a nm-mint 1959 high number for about $15. When I was back at the hotel that night looking at the cards I purchased, I noticed a crease on this card that I had missed. I took it back to the dealer the next day and he said "sorry I missed that crease, pick out something else if you want". I picked another card and also spent another $50 at his table that I might not have. Nice guy!
The PSA booth was not as busy as usual, probably due to the lighter turn-out.
I heard the National last year was overpriced. People have to not only "make table" but also make the trip worth it for them. I am planning on attending this year just to see what it’s like for myself. I’m just afraid of running out of money on my first day from seeing too many goodies.
<< <i>I heard the National last year was overpriced. People have to not only "make table" but also make the trip worth it for them. I am planning on attending this year just to see what it’s like for myself. I’m just afraid of running out of money on my first day from seeing too many goodies. >>
Indeed, and I have to believe that many of these guys make their money on eBay, not shows. Perhaps the shows are just their way of building their inventory... but I don't get the mentality of passing up a sale now, unless they can gouge, for the high likelihood they'll get less later or sit on the item forever. In general, I'd say the vintage guys are much more likely to haggle than the modern guys. For me, this trip to Chicago was to look for modern. Sometimes it's vintage, sometimes it's modern, sometimes it's a targeted mix of both. This time, it was stictly modern... and I had my 1956 need list with me just in case I couldn't find anything else... I could try to find a few just to kill time.
My favorite's are the dealers that bring ZERO inventory to the show. I saw at least 2 Friday night. You know, the guys with one or two tables, empty display cases... and one case full of $100 bills. The rest of the modern dealers, easily half of them either have signs on their tables saying "Buying, Buying, Buying" or they ask every person with something in their hand if they're selling.
I'd venture to say roughly 50% of the modern dealers "make table" by buying on the cheap for resale at the show, or later on eBay and/or other regular customers.
What I don't get is this... the dealer(s) want to buy your cards. They sit their and research for 30 minutes to make a deal. "Okay, so you have about $500 eBay value here"... they'll tell you. Then they dole out the speach about how they have to factor fees, the might have to sit on some of them for awhile... and of course, they need to make money too... So they offer you $100. If you got good cards, maybe you barter up to $200.
To me, that's all good. This is America... that's business... that's capitalism! I like it! As a customer standing there, watching this all the time... it still makes no sense to me to hear all that... then watch the dealer take that $500 in eBay value, which is $400-425 after fees... put all that stuff out on his table for $600-700, and either not budge on prices or barely budge at all.
This has seems to be the way things are trending at the major shows, from what I've seen, over the last 2-3 years... and this was by far the worst I've ever seen.
Outrageous autograph prices in the autograph pavilion, more dealers buying than selling, and very poor attendance... at what I consider to be one of the best major city, non-National, card shows of the year.
All these micro instances keep occuring so much... it's trending to be more of a macro-level norm... to me, it's just my opinion, but that doesn't sound good for the future of the hobby (unless the future of the hobby rest solely on the hopes that it can be sustainable when 95% of the marketplace is "eBay").
Jeff
Card Country
Graded stars 1950's-1980
<< <i>Hey thanks for the nice compliment about our inventory- we try to offer high end cards that are strong for the grade. Actually this was a very strong show for us. The hobby definitely is alive and well, as our high dollar stuff sold like crazy- big stuff like our 54 Aaron 8.5, 5 Mantle psa 9's (60, 61, 61 MVP, 65, 67), 55 Clemente 7, 55 Koufax 8, 55 Williams 8, 67 Seaver 9, 57 Mantle 8, a few other Mantles, a 33 Ruth, and a ton of other high end rookies and stars. Sorry we didn't connect on a deal- I'd be happy to revisit a deal if there are cards that you are interested in. Please feel free to send me a pm or we can work on it at the national. Thanks to all who came by
Jeff >>
Jeff, you BETTER reload for The Natty!
WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
Jeff
Card Country
Graded stars 1950's-1980
<< <i>No worries Eric- already working on it! Anything on your radar that I should keep an eye out for?
Jeff >>
NICE!
No, nothing much on my radar nowadays. Just looking forward to having a great time
WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
<< <i>Hey thanks for the nice compliment about our inventory- we try to offer high end cards that are strong for the grade. Actually this was a very strong show for us. The hobby definitely is alive and well, as our high dollar stuff sold like crazy- big stuff like our 54 Aaron 8.5, 5 Mantle psa 9's (60, 61, 61 MVP, 65, 67), 55 Clemente 7, 55 Koufax 8, 55 Williams 8, 67 Seaver 9, 57 Mantle 8, a few other Mantles, a 33 Ruth, and a ton of other high end rookies and stars. Sorry we didn't connect on a deal- I'd be happy to revisit a deal if there are cards that you are interested in. Please feel free to send me a pm or we can work on it at the national. Thanks to all who came by
Jeff >>
Jeff, I purchased a PSA 9 Brett RC, Rice RC, and Carter RC. I want to thank you again for working with me on the price. The Brett you sold me was right around VCP along with the Rice and Carter. It was also a pleasure talking with you about other cards. Thanks again!
Scott
PS I want your SGC96 Rose
1975 Topps Registry Set "Scott's 75 Topps Set"
Keep in touch!
Jeff
Card Country
Graded stars 1950's-1980
Dropped about four grand on cards to flip. I didn't buy any vintage. It was all "new" MJ autos, Griffey/Jeter, Manning, Pujols , Mays 2003 Heritage autograph and things like that.
Did pick up a 1991 Donruss Elite Legend Series Nolan Ryan / 7500 PSA 9 for my personal collection. That card is pretty hard to find in high grade.
Had not been since probably 2005 and was stunned at the amount of dealers. It was probably half the amount of dealers.
I submitted 56 "shiny" cards to BGS for raw revieww and hit some really cool cards.
Actually pulled a BGS PRISTINE 10 on a Damian Lillard Prizm refractor. That card raw is the #1 card on the hot list at the moment.
Also, hit a Adrian Peterson GREEN XFRACTOR rookie autograph BGS 9.5, Michael Jordan/ Dr. J Upper Deck on card dual autograph / 5 BGS 9, Frank Thomas Leaf rookie 9.5, Kobe Finest Rookie BGS 9.5, Dan Marino/Peyton Manning Co-signers BGS 9.5, Dan Marino Topps Triple Threads Auto patch 1/1 BGS 9.5, Jack Nicklaus autograph 2011 Leaf Metal Golf BGS 9.5, 2012 Exquisite Gold Tristain Thompson BGS 9.5, Charles Barkley Fleer Rookie BGS 9, Tiger Woods Inked Driver BGS 9, 2003 Birdie Tiger Woods Dual UD Shirt auto BGS 9, Derek Jeter 2001Fleer Legacy Collection Rookie Retro autograph BGS 9, Andre Dawson 1991 Donruss Elite BGS 9.5. Forget the rest because they are getting holdered and didn't write them down. I ended up with about 25 BGS 9.5's in all.
My wife bought me a BGS 7.5 Michael Jordan rookie for Christmas and I got it bumped to a 8. That was pretty cool.
A cool part of the trip was American Airlines gave me $1250.00 on Sunday just to get bumped three times.
They called me at the hotel Sunday morning and offered me $250.00 to stay two hours so I said sure and went back to the show. Then I arrived and they offered $500.00 to fly at 6:30 so I did that as well. Then they offered me another $500.00 to fly at 8:25 and of course I did that as well. They did offer another $400.00 to stay the night but I cashed out and headed back to Nashville.
<< <i>I went for all three days.
Dropped about four grand on cards to flip. I didn't buy any vintage. It was all "new" MJ autos, Griffey/Jeter, Manning, Pujols , Mays 2003 Heritage autograph and things like that.
Did pick up a 1991 Donruss Elite Legend Series Nolan Ryan / 7500 PSA 9 for my personal collection. That card is pretty hard to find in high grade.
Had not been since probably 2005 and was stunned at the amount of dealers. It was probably half the amount of dealers.
I submitted 56 "shiny" cards to BGS for raw revieww and hit some really cool cards.
Actually pulled a BGS PRISTINE 10 on a Damian Lillard Prizm refractor. That card raw is the #1 card on the hot list at the moment.
Also, hit a Adrian Peterson GREEN XFRACTOR rookie autograph BGS 9.5, Michael Jordan/ Dr. J Upper Deck on card dual autograph / 5 BGS 9, Frank Thomas Leaf rookie 9.5, Kobe Finest Rookie BGS 9.5, Dan Marino/Peyton Manning Co-signers BGS 9.5, Dan Marino Topps Triple Threads Auto patch 1/1 BGS 9.5, Jack Nicklaus autograph 2011 Leaf Metal Golf BGS 9.5, 2012 Exquisite Gold Tristain Thompson BGS 9.5, Charles Barkley Fleer Rookie BGS 9, Tiger Woods Inked Driver BGS 9, 2003 Birdie Tiger Woods Dual UD Shirt auto BGS 9, Derek Jeter 2001Fleer Legacy Collection Rookie Retro autograph BGS 9, Andre Dawson 1991 Donruss Elite BGS 9.5. Forget the rest because they are getting holdered and didn't write them down. I ended up with about 25 BGS 9.5's in all.
My wife bought me a BGS 7.5 Michael Jordan rookie for Christmas and I got it bumped to a 8. That was pretty cool.
A cool part of the trip was American Airlines gave me $1250.00 on Sunday just to get bumped three times.
They called me at the hotel Sunday morning and offered me $250.00 to stay two hours so I said sure and went back to the show. Then I arrived and they offered $500.00 to fly at 6:30 so I did that as well. Then they offered me another $500.00 to fly at 8:25 and of course I did that as well. They did offer another $400.00 to stay the night but I cashed out and headed back to Nashville. >>
WHOLE LOTTA WINNING in this post!!!!!
WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
The photo was refused & the guy was trying to get a refund.
It was a funny pic though
As far as selling to show dealers, I never really understood why people are taking 30-40% of what a card sells for on Ebay. Everyone has access to Ebay and its very easy to list there. So why lose out on an extra 50% just to move it that day? And there is no need for a show dealer to double their money when they say they are just going to put it on Ebay. There is very little work involved when selling online. If you ask a realistic price on Ebay, your card will sell quickly. The only cards that sit are the ones priced 150-200% over what a card typically sells for.
<< <i>Good reports??? No.
I went Friday night and Sunday afternoon. Maybe Saturday was good, but attendance seemed way down compared to Sun Times shows of the past. Most all the cards I had interest in on Friday, were still at the dealers tables on Sunday... and I still didn't buy.
Easily, 90% of the dealers I talked to regarding their asking prices on cards were just stupid high. I very much prefer to buy cards in person, knowing exactly what I'll get, versus reviewing a scan on eBay... but dang, dealers this weekend must have thought that with their table fees... came an invisible gold infusion in their cards that made them more valuable then every other identical copy in existence.
I stand around watching dealers quote current ebay selling prices... and stoping to look up past eBay sales on their phones, ipads, etc... when looking to offer folks 30-40% for their cards. But god forbid you mention eBay when you question their asking prices on the cards in their displays. One particular card I was hoping to pick up... normally sells for $225-$240 on eBay. Located at three dealers tables Friday... asking prices were $325, $300 & $375. All three dealers seemed offended when I bring up the logical arguement that if they sold on eBay, they might see $200 after eBay fees, Paypal fees & shipping. The $325 & $375 wouldn't budge on their prices. The $300 was mildly receptive to my $220 offer... well, receptive in a sense that he countered with $280. I said I'd go up to $240, which is what I can buy the card for easily on eBay... he wasn't interested. Like I said above, these were all conversations on this particular card Friday evening (I wanted to pick one up thinking there was no way they'd last, if priced reasonably, past Friday night)... all three dealers still had these cards at their tables when I left the show Sunday afternoon.
That seemed to be the standard stance with each dealer I talked to about their cards. On eBay, seller take home is roughly 15% under market value sales prices... most dealers were asking 20-50% above current eBay prices. Yet, all wonder why shows are dying... and eBay keeps churning along?!?!?!
Oh yeah, has it been discussed before (yes, it has)... the autograph lineup was decent, but on average, this was probably the highest price per autograph lineup I've ever seen at one of the Chicago shows. The few times I walked that end of the show, lines looked pretty weak.
I always pick up a few 56's to be graded from Uncle Dick's table when in Chicago, as I like getting decent mid-grade 56's for $6.00 or less... I bought 6.
As for the rest of the show, and for the other 99% of my collecting focus... all weekend... I bought 1 card. >>
Wanted to bring this thread back up for a little update... and perhaps, a little positive lesson for some (myself included) on the payoff that can be rewarded from patience!!!
The dealer asking $325 on the card I wanted, had the card in a raw review BGS 9 holder... I would have been happy to cross to a PSA 9. To me, and I assume many, a modern 9 is the same thing as a raw mint card. I could not get him to budge on his price... and as I wasn't willing to go outside of my $200-240 comfort zone for the card... I walked.
Since the show, 3 things have happened:
1) I, very soon after the show, picked a copy of this card up on eBay for approximately $234 shipped
2) The seller sold his BGS 9 on eBay, for $199 and change (or about $175 after fees)
3) I submitted the one I bought on eBay to PSA for grading and it just popped today...
4 1 21375307 GEM MINT 10 2012 PANINI NATIONAL TREASURES 199 MIKE TROUT AUTOGRAPH MATERIALS Card
SCORE ONE FOR PATIENCE!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>Good reports??? No.
I went Friday night and Sunday afternoon. Maybe Saturday was good, but attendance seemed way down compared to Sun Times shows of the past. Most all the cards I had interest in on Friday, were still at the dealers tables on Sunday... and I still didn't buy.
Easily, 90% of the dealers I talked to regarding their asking prices on cards were just stupid high. I very much prefer to buy cards in person, knowing exactly what I'll get, versus reviewing a scan on eBay... but dang, dealers this weekend must have thought that with their table fees... came an invisible gold infusion in their cards that made them more valuable then every other identical copy in existence.
I stand around watching dealers quote current ebay selling prices... and stoping to look up past eBay sales on their phones, ipads, etc... when looking to offer folks 30-40% for their cards. But god forbid you mention eBay when you question their asking prices on the cards in their displays. One particular card I was hoping to pick up... normally sells for $225-$240 on eBay. Located at three dealers tables Friday... asking prices were $325, $300 & $375. All three dealers seemed offended when I bring up the logical arguement that if they sold on eBay, they might see $200 after eBay fees, Paypal fees & shipping. The $325 & $375 wouldn't budge on their prices. The $300 was mildly receptive to my $220 offer... well, receptive in a sense that he countered with $280. I said I'd go up to $240, which is what I can buy the card for easily on eBay... he wasn't interested. Like I said above, these were all conversations on this particular card Friday evening (I wanted to pick one up thinking there was no way they'd last, if priced reasonably, past Friday night)... all three dealers still had these cards at their tables when I left the show Sunday afternoon.
That seemed to be the standard stance with each dealer I talked to about their cards. On eBay, seller take home is roughly 15% under market value sales prices... most dealers were asking 20-50% above current eBay prices. Yet, all wonder why shows are dying... and eBay keeps churning along?!?!?!
Oh yeah, has it been discussed before (yes, it has)... the autograph lineup was decent, but on average, this was probably the highest price per autograph lineup I've ever seen at one of the Chicago shows. The few times I walked that end of the show, lines looked pretty weak.
I always pick up a few 56's to be graded from Uncle Dick's table when in Chicago, as I like getting decent mid-grade 56's for $6.00 or less... I bought 6.
As for the rest of the show, and for the other 99% of my collecting focus... all weekend... I bought 1 card. >>
Wanted to bring this thread back up for a little update... and perhaps, a little positive lesson for some (myself included) on the payoff that can be rewarded from patience!!!
The dealer asking $325 on the card I wanted, had the card in a raw review BGS 9 holder... I would have been happy to cross to a PSA 9. To me, and I assume many, a modern 9 is the same thing as a raw mint card. I could not get him to budge on his price... and as I wasn't willing to go outside of my $200-240 comfort zone for the card... I walked.
Since the show, 3 things have happened:
1) I, very soon after the show, picked a copy of this card up on eBay for approximately $234 shipped
2) The seller sold his BGS 9 on eBay, for $199 and change (or about $175 after fees)
3) I submitted the one I bought on eBay to PSA for grading and it just popped today...
4 1 21375307 GEM MINT 10 2012 PANINI NATIONAL TREASURES 199 MIKE TROUT AUTOGRAPH MATERIALS Card
SCORE ONE FOR PATIENCE!!! >>
Way to go!
I have already been able to sell a few of my graded cards that got reviewed at the Sun Times show and have since come back from Beckett holdered.
Actually got $1,000.00 for the Dan Marino 1/1 that graded a BGS 9.5.