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Fake Scottsdale 1 oz. silver bars from eBay
CaptHenway
Posts: 31,564 ✭✭✭✭✭
Over on my old dealer network an old-time dealer reported that some people came in with two one ounce silver bars they bought in this lot of 100:
linkey
And because the dealer was suspicious he asked for permission to cut one open and it was brass inside.
Seller has less than 95% feedback rating and does not allow feedback comments to be read.
linkey
And because the dealer was suspicious he asked for permission to cut one open and it was brass inside.
Seller has less than 95% feedback rating and does not allow feedback comments to be read.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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No wonder the seller changed his id to private. Any idea from what part of the country he is?
<< <i>Wow, that's scary. btw that's how Scottsdale sells their bars....sealed in plastic sheets & I still have some left over. From the scans, I would never have guessed that those are fakes. >>
I think seller used a "stock" picture since he stated: "These are fresh, taken from factory sealed vinyl and transferred straight to genuine Air-Tite capsule (handled with gloves!)"
Capt, what made the dealer suspect about those being fake?
same with the fake gold bars posted last week-hard plastic inside soft.
I believe to plastic is to disguise the weight/size
<< <i>beware of new silver bars in HARD plastic, it seems all the fakes I see for sale are in hard plastic airtites.
same with the fake gold bars posted last week-hard plastic inside soft.
I believe to plastic is to disguise the weight/size >>
Good point!
<< <i>beware of new silver bars in HARD plastic, it seems all the fakes I see for sale are in hard plastic airtites.
same with the fake gold bars posted last week-hard plastic inside soft.
I believe to plastic is to disguise the weight/size >>
Indeed. Same as with the fake 1 oz gold RCM bar I posted not long ago.
But it's yet another reason to own 90% instead of silver bars.
Ironic that literal mountains of 90% has been melted in the last 35 years in favor of .999 bars.
--Severian the Lame
--Severian the Lame
<< <i>That really, really sucks.
But it's yet another reason to own 90% instead of silver bars.
Ironic that literal mountains of 90% has been melted in the last 35 years in favor of .999 bars. >>
90% is being faked as well.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
The chinese were testing coins 150 years or more ago , If you are worried about bars just chopmark them before buying
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
<< <i>
<< <i>Wow, that's scary. btw that's how Scottsdale sells their bars....sealed in plastic sheets & I still have some left over. From the scans, I would never have guessed that those are fakes. >>
I think seller used a "stock" picture since he stated: "These are fresh, taken from factory sealed vinyl and transferred straight to genuine Air-Tite capsule (handled with gloves!)"
Capt, what made the dealer suspect about those being fake? >>
He probably weighed one---brass is lighter than silver.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
That is cetainly the lesson learned.
Amazing that a seller would deliver 98 good bars, and only throw 2 fake ones in? Are the margins that tight lol. The seller is probably po'd at eBay and that's his way of getting back at the fees he's incurring.
Sounds like the people that took just 2 bars to the dealer after saying they were from a Lot of 100 may be in on it. What are the odds that they picked the 2 bars out of all of them that just happened to be fake? I smell cohersion with the seller of the bars.
<< <i>I'd rather pay an extra premium and buy direct from Scottsdale, or anyone else to avoid the potential of fakes.
That is cetainly the lesson learned.
Amazing that a seller would deliver 98 good bars, and only throw 2 fake ones in? Are the margins that tight lol. The seller is probably po'd at eBay and that's his way of getting back at the fees he's incurring.
Sounds like the people that took just 2 bars to the dealer after saying they were from a Lot of 100 may be in on it. What are the odds that they picked the 2 bars out of all of them that just happened to be fake? I smell cohersion with the seller of the bars. >>
Agree...there is more to this incident than "meets the eye."
<< <i>
<< <i>That really, really sucks.
But it's yet another reason to own 90% instead of silver bars.
Ironic that literal mountains of 90% has been melted in the last 35 years in favor of .999 bars. >>
90% is being faked as well. >>
But is much easier to spot than fake 1 ounce bars. Knowledge is the key to counterfeit detection. ALL of us know exactly how a 90% dime should look, feel, weigh, sound.
Few of us are as proficient with even the most popular bullion, let alone 2nd tier brands.
--Severian the Lame
<< <i>I'd rather pay an extra premium and buy direct from Scottsdale, or anyone else to avoid the potential of fakes.
That is cetainly the lesson learned.
Amazing that a seller would deliver 98 good bars, and only throw 2 fake ones in? Are the margins that tight lol. The seller is probably po'd at eBay and that's his way of getting back at the fees he's incurring.
Sounds like the people that took just 2 bars to the dealer after saying they were from a Lot of 100 may be in on it. What are the odds that they picked the 2 bars out of all of them that just happened to be fake? I smell cohersion with the seller of the bars. >>
WHere did you get the idea that there were only two bad bars in the lot of 100?
<< <i>
<< <i>I'd rather pay an extra premium and buy direct from Scottsdale, or anyone else to avoid the potential of fakes.
That is cetainly the lesson learned.
Amazing that a seller would deliver 98 good bars, and only throw 2 fake ones in? Are the margins that tight lol. The seller is probably po'd at eBay and that's his way of getting back at the fees he's incurring.
Sounds like the people that took just 2 bars to the dealer after saying they were from a Lot of 100 may be in on it. What are the odds that they picked the 2 bars out of all of them that just happened to be fake? I smell cohersion with the seller of the bars. >>
WHere did you get the idea that there were only two bad bars in the lot of 100? >>
<< <i>Over on my old dealer network an old-time dealer reported that some people came in with two one ounce silver bars they bought in this lot of 100: >>
From your original post.Text
Your original post.
Over on my old dealer network an old-time dealer reported that some people came in with two one ounce silver bars they bought in this lot of 100
Did I misunderstand something?
<< <i>That really, really sucks.
But it's yet another reason to own 90% instead of silver bars.
Ironic that literal mountains of 90% has been melted in the last 35 years in favor of .999 bars. >>
Well said.
I agree on all 3 points.
<< <i>WHere did you get the idea that there were only two bad bars in the lot of 100?
Your original post.
Over on my old dealer network an old-time dealer reported that some people came in with two one ounce silver bars they bought in this lot of 100
Did I misunderstand something? >>
Big time. They bought a 100-bar lot. They took two of them to the dealer.
Liquidity of gold and silver bars is decreasing. Expect them to get more and more difficult to sell, as increasing numbers of potential buyers "pass" just to be safe.
Expect premiums to rise on circulated 90% very very tough to convincingly fake
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>Expect premiums to rise on circulated 90% very very tough to convincingly fake >>
If you don't think the Chinese haveen't been counterfeiting US 900 silver coins you haven't been paying attention. My biggest concern is that someone will mix in a few bad coins into a bag of silver coins. How many people will buy a bag of $1000 face value of mixed denominations and then check each and every coins in that bag?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
edit: and if your "biggest concern" in life is a few bad coins in a $22,000 bag of silver, you are a lucky man indeed
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>So does anyone know yet about the other 98, one way or the other?
Liquidity of gold and silver bars is decreasing. Expect them to get more and more difficult to sell, as increasing numbers of potential buyers "pass" just to be safe.
Expect premiums to rise on circulated 90% very very tough to convincingly fake >>
I have sent a message to the dealer asking him what made him suspicious of the two and whether or not the people then brought the other 98 in.
<< <i>
<< <i>WHere did you get the idea that there were only two bad bars in the lot of 100?
Your original post.
Over on my old dealer network an old-time dealer reported that some people came in with two one ounce silver bars they bought in this lot of 100
Did I misunderstand something? >>
Big time. They bought a 100-bar lot. They took two of them to the dealer. >>
No we did not misunderstand... as far as we know, only 2 of the lot of alleged 100 are bad. And as of this moment, we do not know who has the remaining 98. Correct?
aliexpress aka alibaba
<< <i>How can they sell those? >>
My guess, one lot at a time for anyone who wants to scam unsuspecting buyers.
The problem is with the person who bought it from alibaba and is NOT accurately describing them when selling them on eBay, or anywhere else for that matter..
<< <i>The problem is not with alibaba, they are accurately describing what they are selling. Do I like it? NO!, But they are accurately describing the item.
The problem is with the person who bought it from alibaba and is NOT accurately describing them when selling them on eBay, or anywhere else for that matter.. >>
It's also deceptive indicating 999/100 finesse
So i'll go ahead and state the obvious because sometimes it needs to be said, not just implied.
This does not mean the whole Lot of 100 bars is fake, it means 2 are fake.
A lady came into his shop with the two Scottsdale bars and one bar of a different (unspecified) brand. All were in capsules. The dealer looked at the bars and made an offer on them thinking they were genuine. The lady then said I think they may be fake.
She explained that she had bought the (unspecified) bar from a different eBay seller, and paid for it through Paypal, but had just received an email from the seller of the (unspecified) bar saying that he had just discovered that the bars he was selling were fake, and that he had already refunded her money through Paypal.
The lady noticed that the fake (unspecified) bar and her 100 Scottsdale bars from the other seller were all in the same type of plastic capsule. This made her suspicious of the Scottsdale bars, and she took two of them at random along with the (unspecified) bar to the dealer to see what he thought of them. Before she told the dealer what she knew they fooled the dealer, who has been in the business for a long time. Obviously the (unspecified) bar fooled the seller who sold it, though from his actions he would appear to be an honest dupe in the transaction chain. I have no idea of his qualifications.
Sounds like they were pretty good quality fakes!
TD
Link is several of posts above yours
<< <i>Capt. look at the fake Scottsdale bars that aliexpress.com is offering. From their pictures & the ones I have on hand, I can't find a distinguishing difference.
Link is several of posts above yours >>
Do we know if they are showing a true photo of their product, or could they be showing a photo of the genuine product that they are counterfeiting? I don't know.
<< <i>I'd rather pay an extra premium and buy direct from Scottsdale, or anyone else to avoid the potential of fakes.
That is cetainly the lesson learned.
Amazing that a seller would deliver 98 good bars, and only throw 2 fake ones in? Are the margins that tight lol. The seller is probably po'd at eBay and that's his way of getting back at the fees he's incurring.
Sounds like the people that took just 2 bars to the dealer after saying they were from a Lot of 100 may be in on it. What are the odds that they picked the 2 bars out of all of them that just happened to be fake? I smell cohersion with the seller of the bars. >>
I never said anything about the authenticity of the 98 bars that the dealer did not see. They are an unknown, but in bad company.
You appear to be assuming that they are genuine. Are you?
Apparently they are not based on your update. Thanks for sharing the story.
I still don't blame alibaba, I blame the shyster selling them as genuine when they know they are fakes. alibaba is being truthful in their description imo. Like I said though...do I like what they are doing? Hell no, but they are being on the up & up I feel.
This is how alibaba is representing them in the title of the offering:
Scottsdale Silver Bar,Free Shipping 20 Pcs/Lot,No Magnetic Brass+999 Silver Clad /Plated,One Troy Ounce Silver Bar
and in their description:
Scottsdale Silver Bar,Free Shipping 20 Pcs/Lot,No Magnetic Brass+999 Silver Plated/Clad,1 Troy Ounce Silver Bar(Not Solid Silver)
This is how the sketchy eBay seller is representing them in the title of that offering:
100 - 1oz Scottsdale Silver Bullion Bars. Lion Ingots One Hundred Ounces Total
and in the description:
This auction is for 100 - Scottsdale Silver Lion bars from our personal collection
The alibaba dealer is flat out telling you they are 999 Silver Clad (Not Solid Silver)
And if you really wanted to be technical, the eBay seller makes no reference at all to fineness, only that they are " 1oz Scottsdale Silver Bullion Bars", but by saying "Silver Bullion Bars" to me that implies fineness.
alibaba makes no such claim and in fact tell you exactly what they are.
You decide.
edit:
I'd like to add that if you are considering an on-line auction solely on the picture, without reading the title or description when the seller is not very clear on what exactly is being offered, you deserve what may be coming to you.
Just another lesson for all of us in being very careful with any on-line offering...DON'T JUST LOOK AT THE PICTURE, READ THE DESCRIPTION and ask questions to the seller if there's any doubt in your mind of what exactly is being offered.
--Severian the Lame
<< <i>There is no honest way to sell fake silver.
>>
And no reasoning otherwise will alter that.
The demand for fake silver bars can't warrant making 100,000 a month. In fact I'd be hard pressed to think of anyone the collects them on purpose
who is to say the original thief ordering from china and the ebay seller aren't the same person?
A quick refund from an ebay seller for a fake when the buyer raises the issue means they knew it was fake that refund is hush money.
On the other hand if the seller contacted the buyer first then that would appear to be an honest seller but it could be one who is fishing for a future partner.
<< <i>There is no honest way to sell fake silver. >>
It's obvious to most of us and it's also illegal.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Certainly a copyright infringement, but that's never mattered in China. Time to penalize them trade-wise to reduce the conterfieting that is happening in nearly every collectable category. That said, conterfieting is acceptable to them and they will never stop.
My point exactly. Funny how some are misinterpreting it. I'm not trying to justify anything, I'm not involved, but I feel it is important to place fault where the root of it is, which in my opinion is with the sketchy eBay seller.
I'll let it rest now before it somehow gets twisted that I am condoning what alibaba is doing LOL. I think i've made it pretty clear that I don't like what they are doing one bit, but they are describing what they are offering to a tee. If a potential buyer can't see that clearly, that's their own fault.
The fault is with the greedy basturd that purchases them from alibaba and then re-sells them on eBay as genuine KNOWING they are fake, and then instantly refunds when the slightest question is raised.