Precise Explanation of "No Qualifiers" grading?

PaulMaul

I'm planning on submitting a couple of cards that have marginal centering, and I plan to request no qualifiers in the hope of garnering a PSA 8.
However, I'm confused about how "no qualifiers" grading works.

Let's say I submit a card that is structurally a 9, but has adequate centering for an 8, but not a 9. Will it be given a straight PSA 8? I ask, because
I notice on the registry, an OC translates to two grades lower, and I've gotten the impression from a couple of previous "no qualifiers" submissions that what should be a 9 OC was translated into a PSA 7, even though the card had the centering requirements for an 8.

It's important I understand this because if my 9 OC's are going to come back as 7 (even though they have 8 centering) I don't want to bother.

thedutymon

Morning,

If you don't want 7's, as you said, don't bother, cause that's exactly how it works.

Neil

PaulMaul

<< <i>Morning,

If you don't want 7's, as you said, don't bother, cause that's exactly how it works.

Neil >>



So let me get this straight. If I submit a card that is structurally an 8, and it's got the centering for an 8, it's an 8.

But if I submit a card that is structurally a 9, and it's got the centering for an 8, then it's a 7.

How in the world does that make any sense?

digicat

<< <i>If you don't want 7's, as you said, don't bother, cause that's exactly how it works. >>



No.

The registry scores are diffrent from the actual grading.

If your card meets the physical requirements for a 9, but has 8ish centering, then it'll either be a 9OC or a straight 8.

If a card meets the physical requirements for a 9, but has 7ish centering, then it'll either be a 9OC or a straight 7.

JHS5120

I think there's a stigma against "no qualifier" submissions. I think the graders naturally grade the card how they normally would, but then knock off 2 point if it should've had a Q.

I've only sent in one "no qualifier" submission and I was very disappointed with the results.

PaulMaul

<< <i>

<< <i>If you don't want 7's, as you said, don't bother, cause that's exactly how it works. >>



No.

The registry scores are diffrent from the actual grading.

If your card meets the physical requirements for a 9, but has 8ish centering, then it'll either be a 9OC or a straight 8.

If a card meets the physical requirements for a 9, but has 7ish centering, then it'll either be a 9OC or a straight 7. >>



That's certainly what would make sense. However, I had a couple of cards graded recently that seemed to be structural 8's to me, and
had centering that was better than 70/30. Yet they came back as PSA 6. It's possible I missed something structurally, but I just want to
be sure since I don't want to flush submission fees down the toilet on 7's that will not help me.

PaulMaul

<< <i>I think there's a stigma against "no qualifier" submissions. I think the graders naturally grade the card how they normally would, but then knock off 2 point if it should've had a Q.

I've only sent in one "no qualifier" submission and I was very disappointed with the results. >>



That's exactly the feeling I've gotten too. It's a shame if it's true, because it makes no sense.

thedutymon

<< <i>

<< <i>Morning,

If you don't want 7's, as you said, don't bother, cause that's exactly how it works.

Neil >>



So let me get this straight. If I submit a card that is structurally an 8, and it's got the centering for an 8, it's an 8.

But if I submit a card that is structurally a 9, and it's got the centering for an 8, then it's a 7.

How in the world does that make any sense? >>



Because the centering for an 8 or a 9 are not Different as you seem to be stating.

Neil

PaulMaul

<< <i>

Because the centering for an 8 or a 9 are not Different as you seem to be stating.

Neil >>



I'm not understanding, sorry. PSA 9 has stricter centering requirements than PSA 8, right?

digicat

<< <i>Because the centering for an 8 or a 9 are not Different as you seem to be stating. >>



PSA grading standards

gemint

Digicat is correct. I've submitt thousands of cards to PSA over the years and they are always submitted with a request for no qualifiers. If the card meets the centering requirements for an 8 but is otherwise MINT, it will receive an 8 with no qualifiers requested rather than a 9OC. If the card is centered outside 8 guidelines but is otherwise MINT, it would get downgraded until it meets the centering criteria for that grade. They will not take a NM-MT card and grade it a 7 simply because you requested no qualifiers.

thedutymon

<< <i>

<< <i>Because the centering for an 8 or a 9 are not Different as you seem to be stating. >>



PSA grading standards >>



Yes I am wrong, thought (I don't know why?), that centering is same, but really little difference, .05.

Neil

JoeBanzai

This is a question I have always had as well. Why is a 9(OC) a 7 in the registry if it has the centering qualities of an 8? I think this is where you REALLY get into the "subjective" area of grading. Depending on each different graders opinion (I am reasonably sure they don't actually use any tools to measure centering) you might get an 8, a 9(OC) or even a 7.

Until someone comes up with a visual inspection machine for cards, you are going to have cards misgraded.

I try to stay away from cards with centering issues if I can.

Joe

gemint

<< <i>This is a question I have always had as well. Why is a 9(OC) a 7 in the registry if it has the centering qualities of an 8? I think this is where you REALLY get into the "subjective" area of grading. Depending on each different graders opinion (I am reasonably sure they don't actually use any tools to measure centering) you might get an 8, a 9(OC) or even a 7.

Until someone comes up with a visual inspection machine for cards, you are going to have cards misgraded.

I try to stay away from cards with centering issues if I can.

Joe >>



I think the registry weighting is probably based on averages. It's true some 9OC cards are worthy of 8NQ but many are far too OC to be in an 8NQ holder. For example, a 9OC with 90-10 front centering wouldn't even qualify for a 7NQ.

Nikklos

I am not sure if this is helpful but I have had the following happen. I just submit and never ask for "No Qualifier". I have submitted two of each virtually identical o/c 1970 Pete Roses, Ernie Banks and Willie Mays. Two cards of each, cut on the same bias, from the same box. In each case, one has come back a 9(oc) and one has come back a 7. I think it is arbitrary the way they designate such things.

WinPitcher

I didn't read all the comments but if you have a card that would otherwise grade 9 but has 8 centering
your card would either grade 9 or 8.5. or even a straight 8. The criteria that you have gave us does not need a 'no qualifier'
request. Now if you have a card that is 9 in all respects but is OC you will get a 7 or a 6. depending on how bad the
centering is. Hell it is possible that you could even get a 5.

For some cards it might be better to get the 9OC grade.

CollectorAtWork

I believe what the others have said is correct. If you have a card that is structurally a 9, but with centering of an 8, you will get back an 8 or 8.5 if you request NQ. (Of course, you may think it's structurally a 9, but it's really structurally a 7.) For my submissions, once I used NQ, but now I don't use that anymore. Basically, this is because cards like an 8OC will sell for higher prices than a straight 6. Once I had a really nice looking 1933 Goudey common in 8OC, but the slab was cracked. Rather than send it back in for a reholder, I decided to try to crack it out, and send it along w/ some other cards in a NQ submission. It came back a 6. Then I tried to crack it out and send it w/ another submission that accepted qualifiers. Still came back a 6. Said oh well to myself, and went ahead and just sold the card.

PaulMaul

Bump

70ToppsFanatic

This is not just about centering. I have a card that is a PSA 8 NQ, but when I submitted it for a bump they refused because of a "PD".

Does that mean the card is a PSA 9 (PD) or a clean PSA 8? How can a PD qualifier not remain with the card no matter WHAT structural
grade it qualifies for?

PaulMaul

<< <i>This is not just about centering. I have a card that is a PSA 8 NQ, but when I submitted it for a bump they refused because of a "PD".

Does that mean the card is a PSA 9 (PD) or a clean PSA 8? How can a PD qualifier not remain with the card no matter WHAT structural
grade it qualifies for? >>



Unless the card was submitted to be graded with no qualifiers, it should receive a grade of 9 PD if it qualifies structurally as a 9. If no qualifiers is requested, and if minor print issues are allowed in 8 but not 9, then in that case a grade of straight 8 would be warranted.

Just like the OC qualifier, the PD is needed only when a higher grade that would generally not allow for PD is being assigned.

miwlvrn

<< <i>I didn't read all the comments but if you have a card that would otherwise grade 9 but has 8 centering
your card would either grade 9 or 8.5. or even a straight 8. The criteria that you have gave us does not need a 'no qualifier'
request. Now if you have a card that is 9 in all respects but is OC you will get a 7 or a 6. depending on how bad the
centering is. Hell it is possible that you could even get a 5.

For some cards it might be better to get the 9OC grade. >>



The above is true, that not all 9OC or 8OC's are created equal. As an example, take a look at the thread going right now with the 1966 OPC Whitey Ford cards, where Tom has one PSA 8OC and one PSA 7. If submitted with a request for NQ, there is of course no way that particular 8OC gets a straight 7, even though I've seen plenty of other cards with an 8OC that would qualify for a 7NQ. A lot has to do with being OC in 2 directions vs. just 1. That being said, looking at those 2 Ford cards, I certainly prefer the 7 over the 8OC, and feel that 7 would deserve to be ranked higher than that 8OC on the registry points; the inconsistency w/ qualifiers is that only sometimes, not always, is this scenario the case.

70ToppsFanatic

<< <i>

<< <i>This is not just about centering. I have a card that is a PSA 8 NQ, but when I submitted it for a bump they refused because of a "PD".

Does that mean the card is a PSA 9 (PD) or a clean PSA 8? How can a PD qualifier not remain with the card no matter WHAT structural
grade it qualifies for? >>



Unless the card was submitted to be graded with no qualifiers, it should receive a grade of 9 PD if it qualifies structurally as a 9. If no qualifiers is requested, and if minor print issues are allowed in 8 but not 9, then in that case a grade of straight 8 would be warranted.

Just like the OC qualifier, the PD is needed only when a higher grade that would generally not allow for PD is being assigned. >>



Thanks for your comment, but I don't see how this is comparable to an OC. As you go down in grade the OC can eventually disappear (as the
tolerances for centering change with the lesser grades). With a PD, the print defect will ALWAYS be there. Therefore, how can it be ok to remove
the qualifier with a lower grade in this case? If its a PD then its a PD regardless of what structural level it qualifies for. Same as a MC or OF.

Am I missing something?

PaulMaul

After reviewing the PSA standards, I believe you're right. The OC and ST qualifiers both refer to "below the minimum standards for the grade." But the PD qualifier just refers to "significant printing defects." In other words, they are not describing a continuum of printing issues, and allowing varying degrees of severity within a given grade....just calling the print defect significant (PD qualifier) or insignificant (no effect).

In reality, I believe they do view print defects on a continuum basis, I just think their language in describing this kind of defect is not precise. So I think if a card has a very minor print defect, it might be allowed for an unqualified 8, but not for an unqualified 9. In this interpretation, print defects become similar to centering and staining in being viewed as a continuum of severity.