Is this auction accurately described? and ethical?

LochNESS

Curious if you think I'm in the clear, in terms of stating exactly what it is that I'm selling here.

Notice the category I selected ... I've always been hesitant to sell replicas ...

For a little more background on the coins read this thread.

WheatieFan

I'll leave 'ethical' for others to comment on.
It seems accurate enough.
If eBay were a true garage sale, you would be covered.

However you have a couple potential problems.
One is that your listing will be reported as a fake. Then it may be canceled. This is not such a big deal.
The other is that your buyer will pay, receive the item, and then report it as fake. eBay will refund the money (taking the money from your account or freezing your account) and you will have no recourse. You can't point to 'no refunds' or an accurate description. It is simply not allowed. The buyer can then keep the items and not have to return them. So if you're comfortable with that you could still be out the items and the shipping costs (and the eBay and paypal fees?).

So you are placing a lot of trust in your unknown buyer.

Edited to add: I didn't see you were in the souvenir category. I understand the idea this will give you some cover, but I'd still be hesitant to get into a lawyerly argument with eBay/paypal.

lordmarcovan

Noting the potential problems that WheatieFan just mentioned, I think you're good.

You definitely did your due diligence on the ethical front.

Last summer I had similar concerns with an item of mine.

It went obscenely high on eBay, and my feelings were a mixture of elated euphoria over the price but also dread over the potential problems.

Like you, I noted every one of my concerns about the authenticity issue in my listing, weighing all the pros and cons. And I honestly did not know, one way or the other (and still don't).

The coin went off to the Far East (in a rich sort of irony, perhaps). And I got positive feedback from the buyer, so that one had a very happy ending as far as I'm concerned.



Edit to add: I did have mine listed in the regular category, not in a replica category. I kept waiting for it to be pulled down, but it wasn't. I offered a full return privilege. I see you haven't. How come? If somebody gets cold feet after the sale (for whatever reason), then they're forced to resort to eBay Buyer Protection and it might unjustly make you look bad. I'd add a short return privilege- perhaps a few days to a week- just long enough to give somebody time to examine the stuff in hand. Even if it IS replica stuff.

I believe a return privilege may protect you as much as it would the buyer. Anyone agree with this? I've never actually had a return that I can remember. One time I ended up sending half the money back and let somebody keep the coin (he was a bidiot who'd spent too much on it and then began to weep over it. I basically refunded the overpayment and let him keep the coin for about what it should have sold for.)

lordmarcovan

Aha. I see you posted this as one of three points you were making in my old thread I linked to above.



<< <i>1) You should definitely hold onto the eBay winner's money in case of return. I sold a Chinese pattern, to a Chinaman! and he returned it a month later claiming counterfeit. I gladly refunded him but also was glad I had the money to do so. >>



I suppose this might explain some of your reluctance to offer a return privilege, but I still think offering one could potentially protect your reputation if things go sour. As to having the money to do the return, that's easy. Just sit on your buyer's money until the return privilege is up, as you advised me to do last year. You don't have to offer a 30-day return. Just three days, a week, whatever.

To my surprise, the eBay listing on my questionable Pillar dollar is still visible. I even linked the listing to the forum discussion at the time.

Senex

Main problem is that eBay prohibits the sale of replica or counterfeit coins.
I agree with lordmarcovan that in this instance returns should be allowed.

LochNESS

Thanks gang. Only reason I chose no returns is because it's not my money. Once the sale ends I gotta forward payment to Sweden. I offer 14-day returns on all other items even slabs. Lord M's idea of a short-term policy might work. I can probably convince their owner to wait a few extra days.

I spent a month trying to sell these offline to avoid the scenarios aforementioned. I hope by using the Souvenir category, and bright red warnings, that any bidder will know what they're getting. But of course bidiots abound ... last year I sold a bluray titled "Disc Only no case" and the buyer complained it wasn't brand new in case.

Dabigkahuna

I am not sure if I understand how this would be a "Dutch" auction?

LochNESS

The authentic coins were minted by Dutch East Indies company and the VOC stamp is their monogram.

Andres

imho , It has nothing to do with the Netherlands or the Benelux countries
The originals were minted in Ceylon for local use. The replicas were also made in Ceylon, to sell to tourists.
the only dutch connection for the originals is, that the VOC was a dutch company, but since it went belly up in 1799 , there is no link anymore
with modern made replicas /fakes.
your listing in the souvenirs category should be enough to avoid trouble ( asssuming the buyer / bidders are honest with good intentions)

spy88

I think you have done everything you could to forewarn any interested bidders about the provenance (or lack thereof) concerning the items.
Robert made a excellent suggestion of offering a 3-7 day return policy. Allowing the high bidder time to authenticate or conclude fakery shows you aren't out to sell with the attitude of "buyer beware".
However, I am personally, accutely aware of problems with eBay seemingly always ready to side with the buyer regardless of a listings complete informational disclosure as you have done. Buyer can open a case against you without having had any contact with you to address issues first. eBay and/or PP will freeze funds from the purchase, and unless issue is resolved between seller and buyer, it can escalate to having eBay decide who is in the right.
Sometimes, the easiest way to go is to just do a refund. Otherwise, the hassles and hoops they'll make you jump thru to prove your case might just not be worth the time, effort or money.

LochNESS

Somebody bid, and so I'm no longer able to change the return policy. I logged in to change it but now I can't. So I guess we'll see how it plays out. Maybe they'll get the lot for a penny. I will just be glad to be rid of these paperweights.

Andres, I understand your point very well. However the "Souvenirs" category doesn't have a Ceylon or India option. Of all the subcategories, Benelux seemed to make the most sense. Most of the other VOC coins on eBay had keywords like Dutch, Ned, Netherlands, Indie, etc... so I followed suit. But thanks for weighing in.

I appreciate all your thoughts and have taken notes, in case this situation should ever arise again.

edit: I just looked it over again, and I only see "Dutch" mentioned in the details as the type of denomination ("Dutch stuiver... of Ceylon") so I feel good about it. The denomination, after all, is Dutch stuivers. No different then if someone listed a "British pound" for auction. They weren't Ceylon stuivers, were they? Well I can post an amendment if needed. Let me know if I'm wrong.

Andres

Its not very important , since these emergency coins are in the souvenir department, but they were only used in circulation on Ceylon (Sri Lanka) by the locals.
""real"" dutch stivers were made of silver , even for use in the Indies by the VOC.
the first dutch copper stivers were introduced after WW2 under queen Wilhelmina.