1952 Topps Mantle Opinions

Mdube16 · March 16, 2013 9:42AM

A member of another forum bought this raw and posted scans. He doenst post here but said he was ok with me posting his pics here. Im curious as to opinions as I just assume any non graded version of this card is suspect. The condition makes me wonder even more. Thoughts?

bobbyw8469 · March 16, 2013 10:15AM

My gut says fake. Artificially aged/destroyed to try to make it look legit.

Mdube16 · March 16, 2013 10:19AM

i just checked and I see he bought it on ebay....regular listing 2k start and end. Thousands of eyes saw it and passed. My gut says what Bobbys says

RAWcardDAWG · March 16, 2013 10:53AM

it's from a private collection so it must be real

Piggs · March 16, 2013 11:26AM

The borders on the front look too white compared to the back that looks destroyed with stains. I would also pass on this one.

Mdube16 · March 16, 2013 11:28AM

Im not buying...he is looking for a "quick flip" figuring it will grade a 1 and then he can sell for 3k. I think it will grade a QA

bobbyw8469 · March 16, 2013 11:40AM

He needs to send it in under the express grading fee with PSA. More than likely, it will come back ?QUEST AUTH, but at least he will only learn a $100 lesson instead of a $2,000 lesson.

Mdube16 · March 16, 2013 12:04PM

I dont know the guy at all, but reading his post he already knows everything there is to know about cards

Maurice · March 16, 2013 12:11PM

<< He needs to send it in under the express grading fee with PSA. More than likely, it will come back ?QUEST AUTH, but at least he will only learn a $100 lesson instead of a $2,000 lesson. >>

No, what he needs to do is open a "significantly not as described" dispute and then return this fake card with signature confirmation when ebay/paypal instructs him to.

AMERTZ · March 16, 2013 12:47PM

second chance if someone wants it...

frankhardy · March 16, 2013 12:54PM

I would need to see a larger scan to be certain, but I am thinking that it is the real deal. I think I see pixels on the picture on the card. It is my understanding that you do not see pixels on a counterfeit. I have owned both a counterfeit (knowingly) and a real one in the past and the pixel theory was true in my instance. On most, if not all, counterfeits, the black ink that is used to produce his name and autograph is in half tone (pixelated). The ink for his name and autograph on the card on Ebay appears to be in full ink (no pixels).

It looks like a "b" variation (since it is a double printed card). There is the missing pixel on the left. The box around the Yankees logo is missing the line on the bottom. On the back, the "s" in "DiMaggio's" lines up with the "t" in "right".

With everything I know about known counterfeits, I think that this Mantle on Ebay checks out as real.

Here is a link that is very informative on Mantle counterfeits vs the real thing.

An analysis of the 2 variations

Known counterfeits and how to spot them

Estil · March 16, 2013 1:08PM

Maybe my eyes and the scan are playing tricks on me but I don't think even the overall size of the card looks quite right...

fkw · March 16, 2013 1:12PM

the only redflag I see is the dot pattern on the image area... but some scanners do this

the rest of the card is worn as many are found but there seems to be less creasing that I would expect with so much surface wear. ??

The tape/glue damage looks vintage, if this is a fake it is one of the best Ive ever seen from any series

Maurice · March 16, 2013 7:41PM

It's solid where it should be solid. And it's pixelated where it should be pixelated. But I don't like the look of those pixels. And the red block on the back doesn't look right to me. If that's from the scanner then I don't know. I wouldn't take a chance based on those scans.

mcadams · March 16, 2013 9:12PM

<< Maybe my eyes and the scan are playing tricks on me but I don't think even the overall size of the card looks quite right... >>

LOL.. Its just a pictue of the card. To make a judgement on the size of the card, wouldn't you need something else of known size to be in the picture too?

mlbfan2 · March 17, 2013 1:47AM

I prefer the rarely seen '52 Mantle white mustache version.

By the way, ebay doesn't seem to enforce this rule anymore.
You can list the following trading cards only if they've been professionally graded by a reputable grading company:
1909 Cy Young (T206)
1909 Eddie Plank error card (T206)
1909 Honus Wagner (T206)
1909 Ty Cobb (T206)
1933 Babe Ruth (Goudey #53, #80, #144, and #181)
1933 Lou Gehrig (Goudey #92 and #160)
1951 Mickey Mantle (Bowman #253)
1952 Mickey Mantle (Topps #311)
1966-1967 Bobby Orr rookie card (Topps #35)
1979-1980 Wayne Gretzky rookie card (O-Pee-Chee and Topps #18)
1986-1987 Michael Jordan rookie card (Fleer #57)

frankhardy · March 17, 2013 3:07AM

$2,800 for an SGC 1 - that is about as cheap as I have seen one of these sell for. I would say that the buyer on that card was thrilled to get it for that. Maybe I'm wrong, but that is what I am thinking anyway.

kencope · March 18, 2013 2:48AM

Mdube16 & All,

I am the owner of the card and did tell MDube that it was fine to post it here and have no problem with you all offering your opinions to him as to the authenticity. I do need to clarify some points of misinformation that have been communicated though:

1. I did purchase this card on eBay. I purchased it within minutes of it being listed though, so "thousands of eyes" did not see the auction and pass on it. My purchase is covered by eBay Buyer Protection.
2. Nobody knows "everything there is to know about cards", but I have been a collector for about 25 years, buy and sell a good volume of cards, and am on the senior staff of one of the largest sports card forums on the web.
3. I am certainly not a grader, and have not had a lot of '52 Topps Mantles pass through my hands. However, there is one thing that makes me more qualified than anyone on here to offer my opinion: I have the card in my hands while everyone else is looking at a scan. I have looked at the card under a 10x loupe, compared the card to other '52 Topps cards that I own, measured the card, performed a light test, etc. etc. The card passes every test of what I know to look for on a '52 Topps Mantle.
4. The card will be authenticated and slabbed if it's not sold first. I have an offer pending, but if that transaction isn't consumated, I'll be sending it in to PSA for grading (just waiting on some free grading certs that I'm owed).

Mdube 16 - As I said you're certainly welcome to get others opinions to satisfy your own curiousity, but I would greatly appreciate it if you wouldn't offer misinformation or speak about me in a derogatory tone. As you stated, you don't know me, and I've done nothing negative to you. I offered these scans on a couple of forums to share my excitement on owning the card, and for no purpose other than that.

Doublestriker · March 18, 2013 3:17AM

Oh this could get good!

addicted2ebay · March 18, 2013 3:53AM

I think the card is good and i tried to buy it myself . I think it was a couple Saturday's ago but they wanted payment first so buy the time I logged into PayPal to pay it was gone.

bobbyw8469 · March 18, 2013 4:35AM

The back looks like a fake to me, and the card should definitely be sent in to be graded. I hope for your sake that it is good - just please don't get your hopes up.

Maurice · March 18, 2013 10:32AM

<< second chance if someone wants it... >>

Gone.

addicted2ebay · March 26, 2013 1:45AM

Well.......real/fake???

Mdube16 · March 26, 2013 6:26AM

no way to know. The buyer claimed he was going to get it graded but all he did was list it on ebay. I tried a little back and forth with him but it wasnt worth the effort so I just wished him luck on the sale. There is a Net54 thread on it someone else did and they are split on it there too. Some mysteries may never be solved.

kencope · March 28, 2013 3:08AM

There you go again........

The card WAS sent in for grading and I must have missed that attempt at back and forth from you?

The card received a grade of PSA 1 today. It will be up in my eBay store once I received it back from PSA. Thanks for everyone's input.

<< no way to know. The buyer claimed he was going to get it graded but all he did was list it on ebay. I tried a little back and forth with him but it wasnt worth the effort so I just wished him luck on the sale. There is a Net54 thread on it someone else did and they are split on it there too. Some mysteries may never be solved. >>

JHS5120 · March 28, 2013 3:11AM

<< The card received a grade of PSA 1 today. It will be up in my eBay store once I received it back from PSA. Thanks for everyone's input. >>

Nice pickup!

bobbyw8469 · March 28, 2013 3:47AM

CONGRATS...scans please

kencope · March 28, 2013 3:53AM

Text

tmgrnzx9r · March 28, 2013 6:12AM

Congrats Ken!!

kencope · March 30, 2013 5:33AM

<< CONGRATS...scans please >>

bobbyw8469 · March 30, 2013 6:14AM

Scans would still be nice.....

kencope · March 30, 2013 6:34AM

Same card that's scanned in the first post. Not being so condescending would be nice as well.

<< Scans would still be nice..... >>

Piggs · March 30, 2013 6:40AM

Congrats on the grade. I was wrong on my first post thinking it wasn't authentic, sorry about that. It looks great in a holder doesn't it? Doug

kencope · March 30, 2013 6:44AM

No problem at all, Doug. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. It's nice of you to apologize, though, even when it's not necessary.

<< Congrats on the grade. I was wrong on my first post thinking it wasn't authentic, sorry about that. It looks great in a holder doesn't it? Doug >>

bobbyw8469 · March 30, 2013 9:54AM

<< Congrats on the grade. I was wrong on my first post thinking it wasn't authentic, sorry about that. It looks great in a holder doesn't it? Doug >>

Don't apologize. The card looked fake. I thought it was fake too. That is what happens when there are so many fakes that flood the market. Congrats on getting is slabbed.

frankhardy · March 30, 2013 10:02AM

I too realize that there are a lot of fakes. But there are also a lot of real ones. If you look at the link that I posted above, you can learn a whole lot about the differences between known counterfeits and the real deal. That is what I did when I said that I thought it was real. If I would have seen the card on Ebay, I would have probably bought it.

Congrats on the grade.

Mdube16 · March 31, 2013 2:17AM

There you go. Nice it worked out for you.

expertcollector · March 31, 2013 8:52AM

<< 

<< Congrats on the grade. I was wrong on my first post thinking it wasn't authentic, sorry about that. It looks great in a holder doesn't it? Doug >>

Don't apologize. The card looked fake. I thought it was fake too. That is what happens when there are so many fakes that flood the market. Congrats on getting is slabbed. >>

If that mantle looked fake to you then you are hobby novus with over 5 thousand posts . any true hobby expert could tell in seconds that 52 mantle is real. who ever thought that mantle was a fake is not a vintage expert at all.

WinPitcher · March 31, 2013 8:54AM

About 7 years ago we had a discussion here regarding the mustache card, we called it the 'got milk'
card at that time, IIRC it sold then for 1.2k.

Congrats on getting your example graded Ken.

Steve

ergoism · March 31, 2013 12:24PM

<< If that mantle looked fake to you then you are hobby novus with over 5 thousand posts . any true hobby expert could tell in seconds that 52 mantle is real. who ever thought that mantle was a fake is not a vintage expert at all. >>

Sir, please put your shirt back on.

Piggs · March 31, 2013 12:52PM

If that mantle looked fake to you then you are hobby novus with over 5 thousand posts . any true hobby expert could tell in seconds that 52 mantle is real. who ever thought that mantle was a fake is not a vintage expert at all. >>

Not really fair considering we are looking at a picture on a computer screen and not in hand. That makes a huge difference and also the condition of this card can make one skeptical. Doug

bobbyw8469 · March 31, 2013 1:02PM

Everyone else has put it so plainly, I have nothing else to add. The card looked fake via the scan. I did not see it in person. I am glad the person got it slabbed. If you would like to try YOUR hand at the real vs fake game, I would love for you to step up and bat, instead of heckling others who have played the game and guessed wrong.

expertcollector · March 31, 2013 1:31PM

<< Everyone else has put it so plainly, I have nothing else to add. The card looked fake via the scan. I did not see it in person. I am glad the person got it slabbed. If you would like to try YOUR hand at the real vs fake game, I would love for you to step up and bat, instead of heckling others who have played the game and guessed wrong. >>

test me then I wont fail post scans of any card pre 2000 and I will tell you real or fake just from the scan. make sure the scan is just as good as the raw mantle scan in this thread front and back

Piggs · March 31, 2013 1:48PM

<< 

<< Everyone else has put it so plainly, I have nothing else to add. The card looked fake via the scan. I did not see it in person. I am glad the person got it slabbed. If you would like to try YOUR hand at the real vs fake game, I would love for you to step up and bat, instead of heckling others who have played the game and guessed wrong. >>

test me then I wont fail post scans of any card pre 2000 and I will tell you real or fake just from the scan. make sure the scan is just as good as the raw mantle scan in this thread front and back >>

What exactly is the meaning of all this? People guess wrong on grades, real or fake all the time here. It's part of the intrigue and they are just opinions, nothing more nothing less.

stormtrooper80 · March 31, 2013 9:46PM

Only a jackleg would think that was a fake

Mdube16 · March 31, 2013 11:06PM

note the low post troll alts with the comments. dont pay attention

kencope · March 31, 2013 11:30PM

1. Post count on a particular forum has absolutely no correlation to someone's level of expertise

2. I think everyone has hit the nail on the head: Evaluating a card based on a scan is completely a "game". This has been my point the entire time. If people want to play that game and offer their opinion, they're certainly welcome to do that. The fact is, only someone who is skilled in evaluating such cards and actually has the card in hand can offer a valid opinion.

Thanks for everyone's well wishes with the card.

Mdube16 · April 1, 2013 12:04AM

<< 1. Post count on a particular forum has absolutely no correlation to someone's level of expertise

2. I think everyone has hit the nail on the head: Evaluating a card based on a scan is completely a "game". This has been my point the entire time. If people want to play that game and offer their opinion, they're certainly welcome to do that. The fact is, only someone who is skilled in evaluating such cards and actually has the card in hand can offer a valid opinion.

Thanks for everyone's well wishes with the card. >>

Post count wasnt for you ken...that was about the people after who never post and said anyone questioning the card is a fool

also I couldnt agree more that without the card in hand its impossible to tell unless it has some of the telltale counterfit marks which this didnt (because it was real!!)

bishop · April 1, 2013 12:06AM

Real, or fake ?

kencope · April 1, 2013 12:11AM

Thanks. I understood it wasn't for me, and agree that their comments were useless. Was just making the point that post count (of anyone) and level of expertise usually don't have any correlation.

<< 

<< 1. Post count on a particular forum has absolutely no correlation to someone's level of expertise

2. I think everyone has hit the nail on the head: Evaluating a card based on a scan is completely a "game". This has been my point the entire time. If people want to play that game and offer their opinion, they're certainly welcome to do that. The fact is, only someone who is skilled in evaluating such cards and actually has the card in hand can offer a valid opinion.

Thanks for everyone's well wishes with the card. >>

Post count wasnt for you ken...that was about the people after who never post and said anyone questioning the card is a fool

also I couldnt agree more that without the card in hand its impossible to tell unless it has some of the telltale counterfit marks which this didnt (because it was real!!) >>

Mdube16 · April 1, 2013 12:21AM

<< Thanks. I understood it wasn't for me, and agree that their comments were useless. Was just making the point that post count (of anyone) and level of expertise usually don't have any correlation.

<< 

<< 1. Post count on a particular forum has absolutely no correlation to someone's level of expertise

>>

In general you are right however we have had issues here with people creating alt accounts either just to be difficult or because they were banned.

another thought..... you have a lot of knowledge and some fantastic cards looking at your ebay sales and would be a welcome addition here. I think you would find that if your interest is in graded cards or vintage cards/memorabliia this is a great forum for it.

1952 Topps Mantle Opinions

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